Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Netserk]

I think the hilly section is harder, which I think is the key difference much more so than the cobbles.

I think cobbles are very overrated apart from Roubaix which needs 50km of the worst kind to create a crazy race.

Imagine Kwaremont without the cobbles:

Then you would have a climb that is quite easier than Cauberg. And you think it would still do the same damage?

As for comparing how hilly the different finales are, neither Paterberg nor Kwaremont are of the same calibre as Kapelmuur:

Profiles by https://twitter.com/gregariosdelujo

 

[tobydawq]

Imagine Kwaremont without the cobbles:

Then you would have a climb that is quite easier than Cauberg. And you think it would still do the same damage?

As for comparing how hilly the different finales are, neither Paterberg nor Kwaremont are of the same calibre as Kapelmuur:

Profiles by https://twitter.com/gregariosdelujo

His "Cobbles being overrated" must not have been preceded by a very thorough analysis, I should think.

 

[Red Rick]

Imagine Kwaremont without the cobbles:

Then you would have a climb that is quite easier than Cauberg. And you think it would still do the same damage?

As for comparing how hilly the different finales are, neither Paterberg nor Kwaremont are of the same calibre as Kapelmuur:

Profiles by https://twitter.com/gregariosdelujo

Kapelmuur is one climb. The overall finale is much harder. And the Cauberg does plenty of damage deep in the Amstel. Yes cobbles are a bit of an equalizer for the heavier guys on the hills. Cobbles didn't save Boonen from getting his ass whooped by the mighty one day racer that is Alberto Contador in Benelux Tour.

It's the chaotic race for positioning and being hard to control that makes the race much more than the cobbles. Like how much cobbles did the 2021 WC have? A few very neatly placed kinderkopjes at the Moskesstraat?

His "Cobbles being overrated" must not have been preceded by a very thorough analysis, I should think.

Your counterarguments on the other hand are too hard to read for me cause I haven't got my PhD yet.

 

[tobydawq]

Kapelmuur is one climb. The overall finale is much harder. And the Cauberg does plenty of damage deep in the Amstel. Yes cobbles are a bit of an equalizer for the heavier guys on the hills. Cobbles didn't save Boonen from getting his ass whooped by the mighty one day racer that is Alberto Contador in Benelux Tour.

It's the chaotic race for positioning and being hard to control that makes the race much more than the cobbles. Like how much cobbles did the 2021 WC have? A few very neatly placed kinderkopjes at the Moskesstraat?


Your counterarguments on the other hand are too hard to read for me cause I haven't got my PhD yet.

Everybody knows cobbles are hard to ride and make plenty of selection, yet you come in and say that, nah, that can't be because of them, and expect people to agree with you/try particularly hard to prove you wrong? I think I'll pass on that one.

 

[ice&fire]

Everybody knows cobbles are hard to ride and make plenty of selection, yet you come in and say that, nah, that can't be because of them, and expect people to agree with you/try particularly hard to prove you wrong? I think I'll pass on that one.

There's Ronde cobbles and there's Roubaix cobbles. What would be the Roubaix star rating for the roughest cobbles in the Ronde? Maybe 3-star?

 

[sir fly]

There's Ronde cobbles and there's Roubaix cobbles. What would be the Roubaix star rating for the roughest cobbles in the Ronde? Maybe 3-star?

Incline them and the stars rise.
Roubaix is Roubaix, De Ronde is De Ronde.

 

[ice&fire]

Incline them and the stars rise.
Roubaix is Roubaix, De Ronde is De Ronde.

Incline them and the Ardennes specialists start getting a chance if they get over their fear of crashes risking their goals in late April. I see no reason for Pog not to do better than Valverde '19 or Alaphilippe '20 (if he hadn't crashed out, obviously)

 

[sir fly]

Incline them and the Ardennes specialists start getting a chance if they get over their fear of crashes risking their goals in late April. I see no reason for Pog not to do better than Valverde '19 or Alaphilippe '20 (if he hadn't crashed out, obviously)

That's exactly the point.
They can mix in Flanders, but not at Roubaix.

 

[ice&fire]

That's exactly the point.
They can mix in Flanders, but not at Roubaix.

You get it, I get it, MvdP doesn't fully get it.

Mathieu van der Poel: ‘I don’t know why Pogačar is racing Flanders but we have to pay him attention’

'I look forward to trying and racing for the victory again,' says pre-race favorite.

www.velonews.com

 

[tobydawq]

You get it, I get it, MvdP doesn't fully get it.

Mathieu van der Poel: ‘I don’t know why Pogačar is racing Flanders but we have to pay him attention’

'I look forward to trying and racing for the victory again,' says pre-race favorite.

www.velonews.com

He was asked. "Why do you think Pogacar is racing?"

What on Earth do you respond to that, how could he know?

 

[ice&fire]

He was asked. "Why do you think Pogacar is racing?"

What on Earth do you respond to that, how could he know?

Because Flanders is one the biggest races of the season and Pog has a chance to do well?

 

[tobydawq]

Because Flanders is one the biggest races of the season and Pog has a chance to do well?

Sure but is it Van der Poel's job to account for the motives of all other participants, when he has no additional insight on the matter than the interviewer does?

 

[Red Rick]

That's exactly the point.
They can mix in Flanders, but not at Roubaix.

We don't know if they can't mix at Roubaix.

Thing is a lot of potentially good one day racers don't race Roubaix cause they have much lower variance targets.

In terms of rider type, Roubaix is literally the lowest dominator race. A pure cobbled specialist is the lowest value specialist in the peloton.

 

[ice&fire]

Sure but is it Van der Poel's job to account for the motives of all other participants, when he has no additional insight on the matter than the interviewer does?

No, but he can politely educate interviewers who ask silly questions, such as why Flanders and no other cobbled races (he's a big rider and wants to win big races, road surface is irrelevant), and why not Roubaix, then (he's a strong contender in Flanders but not so much in Roubaix).

 

[Lequack]

A cool video about Pog

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEq4mY_zivk

 

[Krzysztof_O]

A cool video about Pog

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEq4mY_zivk

Great views and cool video indeed. I was in Julian Alps 3 years ago in the spring and views were amazing:

 

[topcat]

Overrated: PhD's and Valverde
Underrated: Cobbles, Nibali and Phil's 2011 season.

 

[Peyroteo94]

@Red Rick I'm getting your point but I can't fully agree with you. I think you are correct when you say differences are made mostly because of slopes and narrow roads but cobbles make you slower and more tired in the climb. So the difference between a rider who climbs at 15 km/h and other who climbs at 14 km/h in a cobbled climb will be bigger than a rider who climbs at 19 km/h to other who climbs at 18 km/h in a asphalt climb.
Never forget why pure time trialists who are also good gc riders, can put way more minutes in climbers when they ride on 3/4% slopes than a flat road.

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

Overrated: PhD's and Valverde
Underrated: Cobbles, Nibali and Phil's 2011 season.

Cobbles are never underrated.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Say what you will but Primoz Roglic isn't better than me.

Neither at cycling or at skijumping.

And you're a far better forum moderator.

 

[Velolover2]

Most likely scenario for a Pog win?

The cobbles specialists unsuccessfully try to drop him on Kwaremont. He stays with a handful of the strongest riders.

Pog drops them on Paterberg and time trials all the way to the finish. The chasers behind him is too tired and selfish to cooperate.

 

[Netserk]

Most likely scenario for a Pog win?

The cobbles specialists unsuccessfully try to drop him on Kwaremont. He stays with a handful of the strongest riders.

Pog drops them on Paterberg and time trials all the way to the finish. The chasers behind him is too tired and selfish to cooperate.

Terpstra 2018 move is more likely. He ain't gonna drop 'em on Paterberg.

 

[jmdirt]

GREAT race today!

 

[Blobs]

Unlucky in the sprint but has no one to blame but himself. I didn't think it looked like he would have beaten VdP anyway.

 

[sir fly]

I feel sorry for him.
Really impressive ride. But that's weak consolation after such a finish.