Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Cycling111]

tbh, pog did drop vinge easily with the 60-90s accelerations on hilly stages before. Now he did not.

But its vingegaard that needs to make up time and I don't see that happening.

Last year, Pogacar didn't droppe Vingegaard in San Luca, and in the Giro, he didn't even dropped Narvaez and Schachmann!! . In the last two years, he's always let him fall on longer climbs. There haven't been any long climbs in the Tour.

 

[Cycling111]

I dont think pound for pound they are weaker to visma in the mountains. Narvaez and yates weren't dropped by any visma riders pace except jorgenson which u would think if almeida was in the race he would be there when jorgenson was pacing which also means both pog and jonas have 1 teammate left in the final of this stages so i think the teams are equal in terms of level but the pbm is visma has great minds in the car who could make a 3 vs 1 on top of a penultimate climb of a mountain while the other ones know nothing of what they're doing in the car

Sure?

Almeida was the only one superior climber to them in this Tour. Narvaez is going to disappear in the high mountains.

Adam has been doing poorly all year. Kuss has been doing poorly for two years, but yesterday he lost less time than Adam, having worked more.

Simon will be better than his brother, and Jorenson too.

Sivakov won't be better than them, and it remains to be seen whether he'll be better than Kuss if he recovers.

Yesterday, Campenaerts had his best performance of the year. Visma always has the best performances from its riders in the Tour.
UAE has the performance it has during the year, Adam and Sivakov in the mountains are not going to improve much.

 

[Peyroteo94]

tbh, pog did drop vinge easily with the 60-90s accelerations on hilly stages before. Now he did not.

But its vingegaard that needs to make up time and I don't see that happening.

Where?

 

[Peyroteo94]

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U could clearly hear wellens asking to close the break and his director which i dont think has a good iq tells him to let the break go. Its unbelievable at times seeing a team like uae having a big budget and still cant hire a good minds in the car

They did the right thing

 

[Rou]

Sure?

Almeida was the only one superior climber to them in this Tour. Narvaez is going to disappear in the high mountains.

Adam has been doing poorly all year. Kuss has been doing poorly for two years, but yesterday he lost less time than Adam, having worked more.

Simon will be better than his brother, and Jorenson too.

Sivakov won't be better than them, and it remains to be seen whether he'll be better than Kuss if he recovers.

Yesterday, Campenaerts had his best performance of the year. Visma always has the best performances from its riders in the Tour.
UAE has the performance it has during the year, Adam and Sivakov in the mountains are not going to improve much.

If anything this year I have learned to not overreact.
After Amstel I was panicking that Pog is overcooked. After the Dauphine TT I panicked again.
Now I'm chill.
On the longer climbs it's harder to cause chaos like on these short hills. If Visma goes all in then only Yates, Jorgenson and Vingegaard will survive.
And they need to keep pacing to keep UAE behind. This is in Pog's favour.

 

[yaf2]

Sure?

Almeida was the only one superior climber to them in this Tour. Narvaez is going to disappear in the high mountains.

Adam has been doing poorly all year. Kuss has been doing poorly for two years, but yesterday he lost less time than Adam, having worked more.

Simon will be better than his brother, and Jorenson too.

Sivakov won't be better than them, and it remains to be seen whether he'll be better than Kuss if he recovers.

Yesterday, Campenaerts had his best performance of the year. Visma always has the best performances from its riders in the Tour.
UAE has the performance it has during the year, Adam and Sivakov in the mountains are not going to improve much.

There was the same vibe when visma were dominating penultimate climb of stage 6 dauphine & comes the final climb and it was narvaez, wellens, pog & vingegaard left & next day it was sivakov who dropped everyone even remco before pogs attack. I think uae team is a bit underestimated this tour & if almeida was in the race we would have seen him, pog & jonas alone in the high mountains

 

[yaf2]

They did the right thing

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U could clearly hear wellens asking to close the break and his director which i dont think has a good iq tells him to let the break go. Its unbelievable at times seeing a team like uae having a big budget and still cant hire a good minds in the car

How?

 

[Rou]

There was the same vibe when visma were dominating penultimate climb of stage 6 dauphine

Correct.
People were panicking also that the TT setup is junk and that Pog will ship minutes in the TT.
Relax guys. Let Rabobank burn themselves.

 

[YavorD]

tbh, pog did drop vinge easily with the 60-90s accelerations on hilly stages before. Now he did not.

But its vingegaard that needs to make up time and I don't see that happening.

Never happened in the Tour.
He did drop him at the end of stages on acceleration, but they were not hilly

 

[Peyroteo94]

How?

To close they would need to burn themselves and Visma would just attack earlier with Matteo. UAE wasn't strong enough yesterday, mainly because Yates is not the same and Sivakov looks way off (probably due to illness).

 

[Rou]

Never happened in the Tour.
He did drop him at the end of stages on acceleration, but they were not hilly

I wonder when will stereotypes change? When will Vingegaard stop being received like a diesel climber when he is super explosive?

 

[Peyroteo94]

I wonder when will stereotypes change? When will Vingegaard stop being received like a diesel climber when he is super explosive?

I don't know. This myth around Vingegaard being way less explosive and vulnerable in punchy stages give me migraines.
Dauphiné was 4 weeks ago and Pogacar just smoked Vingegaard in the high mountains, and this after a strong performance from Vingegaard in the TT and hilly stage.

 

[yaf2]

To close they would need to burn themselves and Visma would just attack earlier with Matteo. UAE wasn't strong enough yesterday, mainly because Yates is not the same and Sivakov looks way off (probably due to illness).

I dont think they burn themselves & i think hearing wellens he could've closed it. They just have to keep an eye on visma getting in the break & if visma wants to attack for 100 kms to get to break then uae just have to mark them but when a break without visma goes they just have to chill & ride easy give them 10 minutes & save energy not like what they did yesterday to ride a hard enough pace with polit

 

[Red Rick]

Give examples, please. Give me a 8-10 min climb where Pog has dropped a healthy Vingegaard.
I'm waiting.

Ermualde, Itzulia 2021.

Rnk	Rider	Team	UCI	Pnt		Time
1	Pogačar Tadej	UAE Team Emirates	50	50	10″	4:04:50
2	Roglič Primož	Team Jumbo-Visma	20	30	6″	,,
3	Valverde Alejandro	Movistar Team	8	18	4″	0:05
4	Yates Adam	INEOS Grenadiers		13		,,
5	Landa Mikel	Bahrain - Victorious		10		,,
6	Gaudu David	Groupama - FDJ		7		0:08
7	Knox James	Deceuninck - Quick Step		4		0:16
8	Vingegaard Jonas	Team Jumbo-Visma		3		,,

 

[Cycling111]

Pogacar already knows what it's like to win a Tour without a team. Vingegaard doesn't. Vingegaard has always had teammates ahead and in the last climb in the Tours he has won, helping him burn Pogacar on the final climb with Kuss or even Van Aert in green.

If Pogacar sees that Visma has a clear advantage and finds himself alone against four Visma riders, he should adopt the 2020 strategy: stay with Vingegaard all the time and try to gain time in situations where the team doesn't count. On the final climb when Jorgenson and Simon are no longer there, and on the ITT, as he did well this week.

Never happened in the Tour.
He did drop him at the end of stages on acceleration, but they were not hilly

Let's also not forget that he didn't dropee Narvaez and Schachmann in the Giro either. Pogacar has more explosiveness in spring, whereas in GT races in recent years he always loses some of his explosiveness in favor of the climbs.

 

[Rou]

Ermualde, Itzulia 2021.

Rnk	Rider	Team	UCI	Pnt		Time
1	Pogačar Tadej	UAE Team Emirates	50	50	10″	4:04:50
2	Roglič Primož	Team Jumbo-Visma	20	30	6″	,,
3	Valverde Alejandro	Movistar Team	8	18	4″	0:05
4	Yates Adam	INEOS Grenadiers		13		,,
5	Landa Mikel	Bahrain - Victorious		10		,,
6	Gaudu David	Groupama - FDJ		7		0:08
7	Knox James	Deceuninck - Quick Step		4		0:16
8	Vingegaard Jonas	Team Jumbo-Visma		3		,,

Rick, what are we doing here?
We are going in prehistoric times when the Murcian mummy (aka Valverde) was racing?
We are going in times when Vingegaard was an adolescent?
What are we doing?
The great Mr. Knox was beating this version of Vingegaard.
Come on now.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Ermualde, Itzulia 2021.

Rnk	Rider	Team	UCI	Pnt		Time
1	Pogačar Tadej	UAE Team Emirates	50	50	10″	4:04:50
2	Roglič Primož	Team Jumbo-Visma	20	30	6″	,,
3	Valverde Alejandro	Movistar Team	8	18	4″	0:05
4	Yates Adam	INEOS Grenadiers		13		,,
5	Landa Mikel	Bahrain - Victorious		10		,,
6	Gaudu David	Groupama - FDJ		7		0:08
7	Knox James	Deceuninck - Quick Step		4		0:16
8	Vingegaard Jonas	Team Jumbo-Visma		3		,,

I hope this is a joke eheheh

 

[Rou]

I hope this is a joke eheheh

Your favourite rider from Andalucia is third behind the slovenians. Not bad, eh?

 

[Peyroteo94]

I dont think they burn themselves & i think hearing wellens he could've closed it. They just have to keep an eye on visma getting in the break & if visma wants to attack for 100 kms to get to break then uae just have to mark them but when a break without visma goes they just have to chill & ride easy give them 10 minutes & save energy not like what they did yesterday to ride a hard enough pace with polit

Wellens and Narvaez are really strong but Yates and Sivakov are not so Wellens would just burn his teammates even more in rolling terrain before the climbs where Yates (for example) is supposed to shine and he isn't...

 

[Red Rick]

Rick, what are we doing here?
We are going in prehistoric times when the Murcian mummy (aka Valverde) was racing?
We are going in times when Vingegaard was an adolescent?
What are we doing?
The great Mr. Knox was beating this version of Vingegaard.
Come on now.

Thou asketh.

Thou receiveth

 

[Peyroteo94]

You favourite rider from Andalucia is third behind the slovenians. Not bad, eh?

Seriously, even Landa beat Vingegaard and he is not explosive at all.

 

[fenns]

I don't know. This myth around Vingegaard being way less explosive and vulnerable in punchy stages give me migraines.
Dauphiné was 4 weeks ago and Pogacar just smoked Vingegaard in the high mountains, and this after a strong performance from Vingegaard in the TT and hilly stage.

Jonas could be winning some of these sprints with Pogi if he went first - Le Lorian last year Tadej never got to him.

 

[Cycling111]

@Rou
You have several examples in Tirreno or Paris-Nice, Tour 2021. But even in the 2023 Tour, with Pogacar with a worse preparation , he droppe him in three stages. That's why Combloux was so surprising, because Pogacar wasn't being inferior to him.

In fact, outside of the Tour, Vingegaard only beat Pogacar in Itzulia 2021 because the useless UAE car made him McNulty's domestique.

Vingegaard is very Armstrong-like in that sense. So much so that they call Pogacar TikTok A., but it's Vingegaard the most similar rider to Armstrong, who has never been better than Pogacar outside of the Tour and who increases his performance in the Tour. It's a bit similar to cycling from that era, with Ferrari's method of performing much better in the Tour.

I'm not saying this for clinical reasons; it's just the way it is. Vingegaard hasn't won a single race against Pogacar outside of the Tour. He's only finished ahead, with Pogacar serving as McNulty's domestique, due to an incomprehensible decision by the UAE. In the others he has been widely surpassed by Pogacar.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Jonas could be winning some of these sprints with Pogi if he went first - Le Lorian last year Tadej never got to him.

Pogacar was cooked there. In a normal sprint, Pogacar would beat Vingegaard.
However, it is clear Vingegaard is more explosive than last year, he already mentioned he started training early in the season just to get more muscles and to be able to cope with Pogacar's vicious accelerations so I don't know why people still think he will get dropped in these small climbs.

 

[yaf2]

Wellens and Narvaez are really strong but Yates and Sivakov are not so Wellens would just burn his teammates even more in rolling terrain before the climbs where Yates (for example) is supposed to shine and he isn't...

Are u saying while trying to control the break wellens would have dropped yates in the process? Yesterday my eyes showed me a good yates who was there with pog when benoot & kuss were going bananas