Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[tigabara]

I don't hear a lot about National Olympic Committees planning on "how to dismantle domination" of Armand Duplantis, or that "the sport is dying" because of him. Not a lot of fanatics putting "underbelt jumper" stickers on him either. I don't see a lot of high jumpers crying or kicking bottles or changing jumping poles mid competition.
I see a lot of athletes trying to emulate his technique. A lot of people applauding him for "lifting the sport to higher levels".
Olympics are not "in danger of dying" because of Duplantis, on the contrary.

So why is it so different with Pogačar?

Yes. Yes...

A great example. There are indeed Aliens in certain sports. Marc Marquez, Michael Jordan, Michael Phelps, Messi, Usain Bolt, etc., etc.

 

[Oldman]

When Pogacar wins Lombardia next Sunday (and thereby podiums), he will become the first rider in the history to podium all five Monuments within the same year.

If he does win it maybe some folks on the Remco thread will figure out why he doesn't feel the need to pile on minutes when he has 75km to go. He's in a rare zone of strategic dominance that is more than just pounding everyone. He's got other competitors so reluctant to risk blowing up they just give up. This happened in the Giro last year, too. Geraint Thomas wouldn't even shrug, let alone get out of the saddle when Tadej passed him. It's not just this year.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Next season while unrealistic, I hope he races:
SB
MSR
RVV
PR
FW
LBL
TdR (just seeing if he can win coming down and racing it more reserved)
TDS
TdF
Quebec
Montreal
Worlds
GDL


If, and very big if, he doesn’t do RVV or PR he can do TofBC instead.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Next season while unrealistic, I hope he races:
SB
MSR
RVV
PR
FW
LBL
TdR (just seeing if he can win coming down and racing it more reserved)
TDS
TdF
Quebec
Montreal
Worlds
GDL


If, and very big if, he doesn’t do RVV or PR he can do TofBC instead.

I hope his schedule is like this:
SB
MSR
RVV
PR
LBL
TdS
TdF
Canadian classics (if he is fresh enough - Vuelta)
WC
EC (Slovenia)
GdL

 

[Peyroteo94]

Actually by the time Pogacar may be the record holder (or at least joint) for most wins on 3 of the 5 monuments, WC and Tour se France.

This is so true. I really hope he wins PR and MSR to really end this Goat debate. In fact I believe Pogacar will surpass Merckx if he wins MSR and PR (and reach 20 monuments).

 

[Krzysztof_O]

This is so true. I really hope he wins PR and MSR to really end this Goat debate. In fact I believe Pogacar will surpass Merckx if he wins MSR and PR (and reach 20 monuments).

MSR could become even more difficult if Remco joins (but under some circumstances it could also be favourable to Pogacar if the two cooperate in the finale).

 

[Peyroteo94]

“If Evenepoel thinks that way, he'll be unhappy a lot in the coming years. If it happens to you once, twice, or three times, I understand that you can be frustrated. But if you keep running into the same rider, for two years now, you have to accept that he's just better at the moment"

Basically he is telling Remco should avoid Pogacar.

Bakelants believes Evenepoel needs to take a mental step back: "Otherwise, he will be unhappy in the coming years"

The European Cycling Championships were the same story as the World Cycling Championships a week earlier: Remco Evenepoel dominated the time trial, but was no match for Tadej Pogacar in the road race....

www.idlprocycling.com

 

[Peyroteo94]

MSR could become even more difficult if Remco joins (but under some circumstances it could also be favourable to Pogacar if the two cooperate in the finale).

I believe it will be good for Pogacar. I can see Bora making the race harder for Remco (and this helps Pogacar).

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

I don't hear a lot about National Olympic Committees planning on "how to dismantle domination" of Armand Duplantis, or that "the sport is dying" because of him. Not a lot of fanatics putting "underbelt jumper" stickers on him either. I don't see a lot of high jumpers crying or kicking bottles or changing jumping poles mid competition.
I see a lot of athletes trying to emulate his technique. A lot of people applauding him for "lifting the sport to higher levels".
Olympics are not "in danger of dying" because of Duplantis, on the contrary.

So why is it so different with Pogačar?

I don’t think Duplantis is a good comparison even if his domination is similar or even bigger than Pogi.

First of all Duplantis are having in almost every competition a competition against himself and the world record. The question about Duplantis isn’t if he’s gonna win or not, it’s whether he’s gonna set a new world record. That a serious yes/no question every competition. With Pogacar it doesn’t make a difference if he wins with 30 seconds or 2 minutes and there is nothing to compare with to create excitement and that’s a huge difference.

A Duplantis jump lasts 30-45 seconds in the TV screen with a short buildup and celebration afterwards. A Pogi solo like WC and EC lasts more than an hour. I think that makes a huge difference as well, partly because it’s much easier to reach out to millions of non-athletics fans with a 10 second reel of Duplantis setting a world record..

Then I honestly think it’s a horrible comparison to say “Olympics are not in danger of dying because of Duplantis, on the contrary”, because the Olympics are not just one sport and Duplantis won 1 of 228 gold medals in the Olympics last year…

 

[Peyroteo94]

I don’t think Duplantis is a good comparison even if his domination is similar or even bigger than Pogi.

First of all Duplantis are having in almost every competition a competition against himself and the world record. The question about Duplantis isn’t if he’s gonna win or not, it’s whether he’s gonna set a new world record. That a serious yes/no question every competition. With Pogacar it doesn’t make a difference if he wins with 30 seconds or 2 minutes and there is nothing to compare with to create excitement and that’s a huge difference.

A Duplantis jump lasts 30-45 seconds in the TV screen with a short buildup and celebration afterwards. A Pogi solo like WC and EC lasts more than an hour. I think that makes a huge difference as well, partly because it’s much easier to reach out to millions of non-athletics fans with a 10 second reel of Duplantis setting a world record..

Then I honestly think it’s a horrible comparison to say “Olympics are not in danger of dying because of Duplantis, on the contrary”, because the Olympics are not just one sport and Duplantis won 1 of 228 gold medals in the Olympics last year…

But pole vault is always the same thing so it's easy to win when you are clearly the best.
In cycling, you can be the best climber but in TTs you are not and you lose. Duplantis to be like Pogacar, he should win Pole Vault, high jump, 100m hurdles and long jump for example.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

But pole vault is always the same thing so it's easy to win when you are clearly the best.
In cycling, you can be the best climber but in TTs you are not and you lose. Duplantis to be like Pogacar, he should win Pole Vault, high jump, 100m hurdles and long jump for example.

Yes. But I struggle to see the relation to my post
Duplantis is popular on TV because it’s not about him winning, its about the World Record. In cycling we don’t have records to compare against in the same way and therefore it’s only about winning and dominance in these sports are in many peoples opinion less interesting than domination in sports where the best have to fight against the World Record.

It’s great for the sports like cycling when the best rider is beaten at regular occasions to keep some level of uncertainty. Therefore it is great that Pogacar goes so hard for races like San Remo and Roubaix. If MVDP can beat him once or twice in the spring, if Remco could beat him once in a while outside TTs and if Vingegaard would drop him at a mountain stage once in a while, I think that would feel much more interesting even if he wins basically the same amount of races as he does know. But at the moment he’s just slightly too good for this to happen.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Yes. But I struggle to see the relation to my post
Duplantis is popular on TV because it’s not about him winning, its about the World Record. In cycling we don’t have records to compare against in the same way and therefore it’s only about winning and dominance in these sports are in many peoples opinion less interesting than domination in sports where the best have to fight against the World Record.

It’s great for the sports like cycling when the best rider is beaten at regular occasions to keep some level of uncertainty. Therefore it is great that Pogacar goes so hard for races like San Remo and Roubaix. If MVDP can beat him once or twice in the spring, if Remco could beat him once in a while outside TTs and if Vingegaard would drop him at a mountain stage once in a while, I think that would feel much more interesting even if he wins basically the same amount of races as he does know. But at the moment he’s just slightly too good for this to happen.

I think it's a silly comparison because Pole Vault is a very predictable event. It's always the same thing so it hurts more when an athlete is much better than everyone else. Cycling is a much more unpredictable sport (e.g. crashes, tactics, etc) even with this dominance.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

I think it's a silly comparison

Then we agree about that

I don’t think Duplantis is a good comparison

 

[Peyroteo94]

Then we agree about that

Absolutely, cheers mate.

 

[Jan the Man]

MSR could become even more difficult if Remco joins (but under some circumstances it could also be favourable to Pogacar if the two cooperate in the finale).

He has a better chance of winning MSR if Remco is on the startline than if he is not. MvP needs two genuine protagonists to worry about.

 

[Cycling111]

Pogacar is better at sprinting than Remco. The problem remains the sprint against VDP as long as he passing Cipressa like this .Adding another rider wouldn't be a problem for Pogacar; when there's a faster rider, the problem is for the faster rider.

 

[Peyroteo94]

He has a better chance of winning MSR if Remco is on the startline than if he is not. MvP needs two genuine protagonists to worry about.

Remco will benefit the most. MVP will look to Pogacar and Remco can do his thing (sneaky attack).

 

[Jan the Man]

Remco will benefit the most. MVP will look to Pogacar and Remco can do his thing (sneaky attack).

Possibly but it still increases the options for a variable outcome which should also benefit Pog.

At present it is difficult to conjure a scenario that Pog can beat a top MVP at MSR.

Adding more realistic protagonists like Remco will benefit all.

 

[Tanakka]

There are people on social media convinced that he will give him, and that he should give him, a Monument to Del Toro.
Del Toro doesn't need a victory, and he hasn'r made an enormous sacrifice that merits a that gift.
Not even Kuss, who was a domestique for years, should have received a Vuelta.

I don't understand how they can think he's going to give away a historic record.

What?!?
I thought you meant 'Tre Valli Varesine', if the 'McNulty scenario in Montreal' manifests.

'GdL': No Way!
I don't see it being possible, my jaw will drop if it ever happens.

 

[Cycling111]

What?!?
I thought you meant 'Tre Valli Varesine', if the 'McNulty scenario in Montreal' manifests.

'GdL': No Way!
I don't see it being possible, my jaw will drop if it ever happens.

Yes, there are people asking him to give Lombardy to Del Toro

It seems like he's going to try to help him today. Asking for more is too much, especially since Del Toro has won enough and isn't someone in need for Pogacar to sacrifice a Monument.

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[Strawberry_Jams]

just for my own mind really, big races Pog hasn't won yet to complete cycling.

Vuelta a Espana

Basque Country
Romandie
Suisse

Omloop
Milan San-Remo
Milano-Torino
E3 Prijs
Dwars door Vlaanderen
Roubaix
San Sebastian
Bretagne
Quebec

I'm surprised at how many there are really. Few more years yet

 

[Salvarani]

just for my own mind really, big races Pog hasn't won yet to complete cycling.

Vuelta a Espana

Basque Country
Romandie
Suisse

Omloop
Milan San-Remo
Milano-Torino
E3 Prijs
Dwars door Vlaanderen
San Sebastian
Bretagne
Quebec

I'm surprised at how many there are really. Few more years yet

Only MSR and Vuelta is important, when you sum up his career.

The others arent but nice to win if he does.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Yes, there are people asking him to give Lombardy to Del Toro

It seems like he's going to try to help him today. Asking for more is too much, especially since Del Toro has won enough and isn't someone in need for Pogacar to sacrifice a Monument.

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He will ride for Isaac today. Such a shame to be honest. I was cheering for him to reach 20 wins this season.

 

[Peyroteo94]

just for my own mind really, big races Pog hasn't won yet to complete cycling.

Vuelta a Espana

Basque Country
Romandie
Suisse

Omloop
Milan San-Remo
Milano-Torino
E3 Prijs
Dwars door Vlaanderen
San Sebastian
Bretagne
Quebec

I'm surprised at how many there are really. Few more years yet

Vuelta
PR
MSR
Olympic RR
Pais Vasco
Tour de Romandie
Tour de Suisse

 

[Peter von]

just for my own mind really, big races Pog hasn't won yet to complete cycling.

Vuelta a Espana

Basque Country
Romandie
Suisse

Omloop
Milan San-Remo
Milano-Torino
E3 Prijs
Dwars door Vlaanderen
Roubaix
San Sebastian
Bretagne
Quebec

I'm surprised at how many there are really. Few more years yet

one could argue that only PR and Olympics would move the needle on Pogi's Palmares. Which is absolutely bonkers