Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Andy schleck]

He's going to do pretty much the same as usual with the exception that he won't ride the Ardennes, so don't expect fireworks before July.

But he has been improving every year so far, so perhaps he'll still be quite strong in the races before the Tour. We'll see when he starts his season in Spain next week.

I think Vingegaard will be in a good shape at PN. Not TDF shape, but a very good shape. He's gonna end a 3 week training camp in teide this week, then grand camino, before PN.

 

[Extinction]

If vingegaard improved even more physically, that would be even more scary to his opponents.

Well, Pogacar is no bunny rabbit.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

Well, Pogacar is no bunny rabbit.

Exactly… We finally have what we always wanted to see:

Armstrong vs best version of Ullrich. Vingegaard is Armstrong 2.0 (better than best possible Armstrong), and Pogacar is best possible Ullrich.

Vingegaards TdF was won with 42+ kms/hr on average, Armstrong‘s 2005 TdF with 41+. Not-so-intimidating-looking Vingegaard is stronger, faster, better than Lance.

And Tadej (Tadej‘s thread here, still) is like 1997 and summer 2006 Ullrich: born to race his bike.

Pogacar‘s hair in Jaen Paraiso still came through his helmet. His tan was weak, skin little bit sun burned. He doesn‘t tan this well. But he‘s really good already.

Now I look forward to WVA vs MvdP vs Pogi on Strade Bianche. Imagine these three will arrive together in a three man lead group at the foot of the final, short but decisive, ascent. Then we‘ll see a mountain sprint which could not be any better.

A sprint which Pogi would love so much that he maybe even would line up to every Superprestige race in next winter. Because he can‘t get enough of sprinting against Wout and Mathieu.

 

[Red Rick]

If vingegaard improved even more physically, that would be even more scary to his opponents.

I think it's more likely Vingegaards base/spring level improves than that his TdF level improves.

 

[Roku]

I don't think the comparison is accurate. Vingegaard isn't similar to Lance in anything (apart from having a great ITT+climbing combo), neither Pogi is similar to Ulle.

Lance ambition is unmatched and he was more versatile than Vingegaard. Pogi is a million times more professional and focused than Jan. Like I said, it's a bad comparison.

Finally, saying Vingegaard is better than the best Lance version (clinic issues aside) is way too much with just one TdF win under his belt. You can't compare average speeds from 20 years ago... Let's see first if Vingo can match Contador, which I don't think he will anyways.

 

[frisenfruitig]

Vingeraard won the tour once and he is better than Armstrong? What a ridiculous statement lol

 

[bNator]

Exactly… We finally have what we always wanted to see:

Armstrong vs best version of Ullrich. Vingegaard is Armstrong 2.0 (better than best possible Armstrong), and Pogacar is best possible Ullrich.

Vingegaards TdF was won with 42+ kms/hr on average, Armstrong‘s 2005 TdF with 41+. Not-so-intimidating-looking Vingegaard is stronger, faster, better than Lance.

And Tadej (Tadej‘s thread here, still) is like 1997 and summer 2006 Ullrich: born to race his bike.

Pogacar‘s hair in Jaen Paraiso still came through his helmet. His tan was weak, skin little bit sun burned. He doesn‘t tan this well. But he‘s really good already.

Now I look forward to WVA vs MvdP vs Pogi on Strade Bianche. Imagine these three will arrive together in a three man lead group at the foot of the final, short but decisive, ascent. Then we‘ll see a mountain sprint which could not be any better.

A sprint which Pogi would love so much that he maybe even would line up to every Superprestige race in next winter. Because he can‘t get enough of sprinting against Wout and Mathieu.

The way you are comparing Vingegaard to Armstrong and Pogacar to Ullrich, we could compare anyone to anyone. I don't see much similarity between any of those riders except that they wore a helmet (sometimes) and won TDF... Completely different styles, physiques, traits and personalities. We could probably compare Pogačar's (projected) ambition to that of Lance and we could compare Vingegaard's introverted nature to that of Jan.

None of them is as good a time triallist as Jan was (on his best day) and none of them is as good a sprinter as Pogacar is. Pogačar stands out with his besides-TDF success (especially one-day races) and Armstrong is unique with his incredible success rate...

 

[tobydawq]

Vingeraard won the tour once and he is better than Armstrong? What a ridiculous statement lol

But he won it with a faster average speed

 

[Elos Anjos]

Exactly… We finally have what we always wanted to see:

Armstrong vs best version of Ullrich. Vingegaard is Armstrong 2.0 (better than best possible Armstrong), and Pogacar is best possible Ullrich.

Vingegaards TdF was won with 42+ kms/hr on average, Armstrong‘s 2005 TdF with 41+. Not-so-intimidating-looking Vingegaard is stronger, faster, better than Lance.

And Tadej (Tadej‘s thread here, still) is like 1997 and summer 2006 Ullrich: born to race his bike.

Pogacar‘s hair in Jaen Paraiso still came through his helmet. His tan was weak, skin little bit sun burned. He doesn‘t tan this well. But he‘s really good already.

Now I look forward to WVA vs MvdP vs Pogi on Strade Bianche. Imagine these three will arrive together in a three man lead group at the foot of the final, short but decisive, ascent. Then we‘ll see a mountain sprint which could not be any better.

A sprint which Pogi would love so much that he maybe even would line up to every Superprestige race in next winter. Because he can‘t get enough of sprinting against Wout and Mathieu.

Dude you have the most awkward posts.

 

[CyclistAbi]

We will see on how both tams will stack their riders. As to me JV is not necessarily in such an advantage. When it comes to the TTT. Depends on who is going. And it doesn't look like they will have such an edge in TTT this year and at this race. After this announcement i do feel that they will try to rectify this. All in all i do feel that Pogi vs Jonas will be more mano-a-mano this time. Compared to the Tour. When climbing we know what Jonas is capable of. That is sticking to Pogi. About attacking. We know Jonas can do some of that. On the other hand if he will be behind and will need to get the time back. That should be a real test. As this is a shorter stage race. What i feel Pogi will do is he will be relentless. In trying to crack Jonas. If he manages to do it. Then in my opinion mission accomplished and less confidence in JV as a result. If he fails in doing that. Then the mission, likely imagined by Peiper on how to bully Jonas, obviously failed and likely a bit of panic introduced in UAE camp. Especially in regards to the pressure on who to bring to the Tour and in what form. Considering on how things stand ATM. I feel that the move UAE made. It's an appropriate move to take. Compared to lets say doing UAE and fighting with Remco & Co. That would just make so little sense. Compared to new schedule. That i must say the move is brilliant.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

It's not that bad start of the season for Pogi, is it? Expect near-peak version at Strade and Tirreno (as usual). As for Vinge-Pogi rivalry we all saw how strong the Danish is. But will he still be better than Pog under different circumstances (i.e. no team tactical advantage and some cold day Le Grand Bornand-like performance instead of long heat wave the whole race?). Time will tell.

 

[Extinction]

Exactly… We finally have what we always wanted to see:

Armstrong vs best version of Ullrich. Vingegaard is Armstrong 2.0 (better than best possible Armstrong), and Pogacar is best possible Ullrich.

Vingegaards TdF was won with 42+ kms/hr on average, Armstrong‘s 2005 TdF with 41+. Not-so-intimidating-looking Vingegaard is stronger, faster, better than Lance.

And Tadej (Tadej‘s thread here, still) is like 1997 and summer 2006 Ullrich: born to race his bike.

Pogacar‘s hair in Jaen Paraiso still came through his helmet. His tan was weak, skin little bit sun burned. He doesn‘t tan this well. But he‘s really good already.

Now I look forward to WVA vs MvdP vs Pogi on Strade Bianche. Imagine these three will arrive together in a three man lead group at the foot of the final, short but decisive, ascent. Then we‘ll see a mountain sprint which could not be any better.

A sprint which Pogi would love so much that he maybe even would line up to every Superprestige race in next winter. Because he can‘t get enough of sprinting against Wout and Mathieu.

Well, you certainly have garnered much criticism for this post. Perhaps the pundits aren't considering it's true significance, which is not that Armstrong and Pog or Ullrich and Vingegaard are similar in how the ride (presence on the bike), but like the American/German rivalry, you have two that can make a battle royale for a generation (potentially Remco must be added to the mix). I agree with the critics, however, that the analogy stops here. In any case, it's interesting that Armstrong and Pogacar are both Virgo, Ullrich and Vingegaard both Sagittarius, but, here too, further comparisons stop.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Eddy has chosen his descendant hence this debate should be over. On who is who. And he is Gemini.

P.S. At least until the next Tour. And the next one ...

 

[Andy schleck]

Vingeraard won the tour once and he is better than Armstrong? What a ridiculous statement lol

Armstrong never won the tour.

 

[Andy schleck]

We will see on how both tams will stack their riders. As to me JV is not necessarily in such an advantage. When it comes to the TTT. Depends on who is going. And it doesn't look like they will have such an edge in TTT this year and at this race. After this announcement i do feel that they will try to rectify this. All in all i do feel that Pogi vs Jonas will be more mano-a-mano this time. Compared to the Tour. When climbing we know what Jonas is capable of. That is sticking to Pogi. About attacking. We know Jonas can do some of that. On the other hand if he will be behind and will need to get the time back. That should be a real test. As this is a shorter stage race. What i feel Pogi will do is he will be relentless. In trying to crack Jonas. If he manages to do it. Then in my opinion mission accomplished and less confidence in JV as a result. If he fails in doing that. Then the mission, likely imagined by Peiper on how to bully Jonas, obviously failed and likely a bit of panic introduced in UAE camp. Especially in regards to the pressure on who to bring to the Tour and in what form. Considering on how things stand ATM. I feel that the move UAE made. It's an appropriate move to take. Compared to lets say doing UAE and fighting with Remco & Co. That would just make so little sense. Compared to new schedule. That i must say the move is brilliant.

I think it will be difficult to pogi crack Vingegaard at PN. Vingegaard will be in a good shape. He is not that bad in february/march and col de la couillole is a 40 min climb. It suits better for vingegaard. The TTT also suits better jumbo.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Andy schleck

On this level for sure nothing is easy. In regards to TTT. I am not sure what will happen. JV usually has an edge in this discipline. On this race we will not necessarily see the best JV has to offer in TTT. In addition and looking beyond TTT. Compared to the Tour Jonas won't have the help of two really strong individuals. He should be rather exposed. My prediction hence is this will likely be more of a mano-a-mano type of fight for GC. Pogi seems in great shape. Jonas will hence need to be at his best. From the Tour perspective forcing Jonas to be at his best in March. That is something to consider too. All in all what happened is for Jonas will need to switch from medium to high mode for this race. There is now much more pressure on him to perform.

 

[frisenfruitig]

Other than being in peak shape at the tour I don't think JV expect much at all from Vingegaard. I suspect he will be good but not top shape like Pogacar

 

[Extinction]

Eddy has chosen his descendant hence this debate should be over. On who is who. And he is Gemini.

P.S. At least until the next Tour. And the next one ...

Who is this Gemini you are referring to?

 

[perico]

He will do everything to avoid Remco.

I don’t think he cares what Remco is doing at this point. I mean… it’s impressive he won La Vuelta, but so has Simon Yates.

 

[Extinction]

I don’t think he cares what Remco is doing at this point. I mean… it’s impressive he won La Vuelta, but so has Simon Yates.

True, but Yates didn't also win in the same season Liege and Worlds, with such dominance and so young. I gaurantee you after such feats and having been beaten by Vingegaard at the Tour, Tadej, as I predicted, will strike back this year more motivated and ferocious than ever. Yet it's because there are such rivals that the level must become higher.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Who is this Gemini you are referring to?

Eddy is. You wrote:

In any case, it's interesting that Armstrong and Pogacar are both Virgo, Ullrich and Vingegaard both Sagittarius, but, here too, further comparisons stop.

Hence i thought this is a thing now. And should be mentioned.

 

[hayneplane]

There is no comparison between Armstrong and Pogacar. Lance hyper targeted the Tour whereas Tadej is super strong all year round and Armstrong is a joyless bully compared to the sunny demeanour of Pogi the smiling assassin.

 

[Extinction]

Eddy is. You wrote:



Hence i thought this is a thing now. And should be mentioned.

It was unclear to me that you were referring to Merckx and not Pogacar. It wasn't a "thing," just an observation to demonstrate similarities have their limitations. At any rate, Merckx has been known to make some pretty dumb remarks, but in this case on Pogacar there us clearly a basis of truth, but it's far too soon to definitively say. So, no, the final world is yet to be said.

 

[Cookster15]

Pog won’t make the same mistake he did on Granon. He looks hungry and is in great shape. Plus Vingo has less support - Roglic was crucial and can WvA deliver again like he did in 2022? And we see Pog is in immense form already. Plus, UAE also look stronger.

 

[Andy schleck]

He will do everything to avoid Remco.

It's not pogi that goes to the giro instead of going to the tour.