Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

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Berniece

Berniece

Sep 12, 2022
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Extinction said:
You'd think they would no what they are doing at UAE and that Pog hasn't peaked yet.
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With the new training techniques, cyclists have been able to hold on to their peak form, or something that is close to it for a longer time. Look at how good WVA was last year at the Omloop. I think Pogacard isn't that far from his top spring form. I think he's aiming for de Ronde van Vlaanderen to be at 100%, Liege he already won so he can be at 95%, follow, and just win the sprint.
 
S

Sciatic

Mar 4, 2011
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Krzysztof_O said:
Recently there have been many guys excelling at GTs at the age of 25 or less: Pogacar, Evenepoel, Bernal, Vingegaard, Hindley, Hart, Ayuso. Is it all a coincidence? Just a golden gen? I have my theory on that matter (regarding advanced training methods of very young cyclists) but it's not for this part of the forum. As for marathon runners, ok their endurance is still very strong at the age of 35 but OTOH look at the best ever 10k times. All achieved by young guys. In cycling races are often decided by 30-min or so efforts. Obviously you need a great aerobic base in long races but you also need a superb engine for those final pushes in races to be the best. And those young cyclists obviously have them (they have both).
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Winning a GT winner by age 25 was not that unusual for great riders in past eras: Hinault, Fignon, Lemond, Ullrich, had all won their 1st GT by age 25. But getting there by 22 is a what seems so different now.
 
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S

Sciatic

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Extinction said:
I was talking about 83 or even 82, because he wasn't groomed like Fignon was to win so young. I'm certain they didn't prepare Greg to win earlier, otherwise he would have, because his talent was no less than Fignon's.
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I see what what you mean, Good point. He also didn’t start as early as a youth rider. Although even Fignon would not have won that soon except he was added to the Tour squad as (I think) a late replacement?
 
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Tonton

Tonton

May 17, 2013
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Extinction said:
I was talking about 83 or even 82, because he wasn't groomed like Fignon was to win so young. I'm certain they didn't prepare Greg to win earlier, otherwise he would have, because his talent was no less than Fignon's.
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"They didn't prepare Greg to win earlier". You said it. It is that simple.

I remember when Hinault won the '77 CdD in epic fashion, bloodied, dizzy and pushing his bike, getting back on it and eventually beating the future TdF winner, keeping the yellow...but he was groomed by Guimard and had to wait another year to race and win his first Tour. LeMond was a great rider in '82, but he had to wait...

The world has changed. The "old school" approach doesn't apply these days. Teams are corporations.

Tadej Pogacar has an advantage over his predecessors: the advances of sports medicine (no clinic talk here) can make him recover, not miss races, and extend his career. When it's all said and done, Tadej Pogacar can win so big, so much that he will reach icon status and stats don't matter.

Bravo Pog for another win. A dominating win. You are the best. Period.

PS: be smart, don't be the puppy chasing butterflies. It burnt you once.
 
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O

Oldermanish

Jan 31, 2016
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Extinction said:
I was talking about 83 or even 82, because he wasn't groomed like Fignon was to win so young. I'm certain they didn't prepare Greg to win earlier, otherwise he would have, because his talent was no less than Fignon's.
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No one on La Vie groomed Lemond to be anything but support for the Badger. He took what he won on his own training, skills and innovation. He won the Tour on Boone's clip-on tri bars and changed the sport with that and better training systems. He was also just a natural monster that could ride huge miles. Most the young phenoms have the advantage of those innovations without having to discover them and should be good. We are definitely seeing an era of well-schooled talent and should enjoy some great years of racing....Yes?
 
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Extinction

Extinction

Jan 8, 2020
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Oldermanish said:
No one on La Vie groomed Lemond to be anything but support for the Badger. He took what he won on his own training, skills and innovation. He won the Tour on Boone's clip-on tri bars and changed the sport with that and better training systems. He was also just a natural monster that could ride huge miles. Most the young phenoms have the advantage of those innovations without having to discover them and should be good. We are definitely seeing an era of well-schooled talent and should enjoy some great years of racing....Yes?
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Indeed and it's why I said initially had Lemond been French he would have perhaps won the Tour at 22. He clearly wasn't monitored properly, put on far too much weight over the winter, which cost him in the classics, and just wasn't prioritized like a French rider being on French teams. Some of it was doubtless his own doing, being American in a new culture, but we weren't in the days of Arab money and the World Tour yet and ready-made 19-20 year-olds.
 
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Krzysztof_O

Krzysztof_O

Jul 7, 2013
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Red Rick said:
Vingegaard is competitive when he races, he just doesn't lolstomp everyone in the spring because that's actually not the normal thing to do.

Vingegaard got 2nd in Tirreno last year, but sure he only shows up in July.
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Compare Vinge's level at Tours 2021 and 2022 vs other races. Got the difference? It's obvious that he peaks for one race and the only other race he was close to his best was Dauphine 2022. Tirreno? He was crushed by Pog just like the rest, he was on Landa/Porte level. The Tour? Completely different story, he becomes a monster. I never said which is normal and which is not, just stating a big difference in performance level. His peak is super high and narrow, obviously we've seen such examples in the past.
 
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S

Salvarani

Oct 15, 2017
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Red Rick said:
Vingegaard is competitive when he races, he just doesn't lolstomp everyone in the spring because that's actually not the normal thing to do.

Vingegaard got 2nd in Tirreno last year, but sure he only shows up in July.
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There are a lot great riders, legends, who has been good all year round through the history of the sport. Im assuming a lot the early races back then was not broadcasted, so there is really no way of knowing unless you were there if riders performed this great or "stomped" their competition.

So saying it is "not the normal thing to do" is just throwing shade, but maybe you are alluding to something different than what can be written about here.

Of course, it is also "not the normal thing to do" for anyone. Because everyone is not Pogacar, who is a legend of the sport already.
 
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Red Rick

Red Rick

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Krzysztof_O said:
Compare Vinge's level at Tours 2021 and 2022 vs other races. Got the difference? It's obvious that he peaks for one race and the only other race he was close to his best was Dauphine 2022. Tirreno? He was crushed by Pog just like the rest, he was on Landa/Porte level. The Tour? Completely different story, he becomes a monster. I never said which is normal and which is not, just stating a big difference in performance level. His peak is super high and narrow, obviously we've seen such examples in the past.
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Pogacar couldn't get Vingegaard off his wheel in Itzulia in 2021.
 
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Netserk

Netserk

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Salvarani said:
There are a lot great riders, legends, who has been good all year round through the history of the sport. Im assuming a lot the early races back then was not broadcasted, so there is really no way of knowing unless you were there if riders performed this great or "stomped" their competition.
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Which riders are you thinking of? Hinault and Fignon? Or further back in time?
 
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Extinction

Extinction

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Salvarani said:
There are a lot great riders, legends, who has been good all year round through the history of the sport. Im assuming a lot the early races back then was not broadcasted, so there is really no way of knowing unless you were there if riders performed this great or "stomped" their competition.

So saying it is "not the normal thing to do" is just throwing shade, but maybe you are alluding to something different than what can be written about here.

Of course, it is also "not the normal thing to do" for anyone. Because everyone is not Pogacar, who is a legend of the sport already.
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I think he means over the last 30 odd years of the sport, specialization and the science of preparation, performance and materials have made it such that, until he and Remco, winning monuments, GTs and Worlds in the same year was a thing of the past, another cycling so to speak. It's not that it's impossible, but by now has become "not normal." Casting shadows has nothing to do with it, for anybody that's been following the sport long enough to have observed the changes that took place or, at any rate, was not his intention I don't think.
 
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Red Rick

Red Rick

Feb 20, 2012
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Salvarani said:
There are a lot great riders, legends, who has been good all year round through the history of the sport. Im assuming a lot the early races back then was not broadcasted, so there is really no way of knowing unless you were there if riders performed this great or "stomped" their competition.

So saying it is "not the normal thing to do" is just throwing shade, but maybe you are alluding to something different than what can be written about here.

Of course, it is also "not the normal thing to do" for anyone. Because everyone is not Pogacar, who is a legend of the sport already.
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I'm not throwing shade. Pogacar is simply an extreme outlier, he actually has big targets he can set all year around. First TdF winner who can also win Vlaanderen since the 80s I think? And I don't really think back of those ages as the highlights of the sport. It was before a lot of professionalization and specialization, it was much easier to be competitive everywhere back than then it is now, so it's not like riders like Hinault stopped existing, they just stopped winning everywhere, had to specialize or be a jack of all trades and master of none.

Why would Vingegaard have a real peak in March. He is competitive in the Tirrenos, Itzulias like you'd expect of most top GT riders.
 
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