Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[frisenfruitig]

I think it's also the perfect combination of still being at your physical peak while also having more racing experience (knowing when to save energy and when to go full gas etc.).

 

[BigCoward]

I do worry he doesn't know when to day no. Every day seems to be balls to the wall. Great for us but may cost him again in TdF. I hope not though, he rides the way we want them all to ride.

 

[Big Doopie]

He peaks in the Tour france, but during almost all year, he can be at 90/95% of his best shape.

agreed. Pretty distinct drop off after TDF tho. And it takes him a few races after the break that follows to get it revved up again.

however insane shape mostly, I agree.

 

[Big Doopie]

Wait…how can it be?

a day without a Pog win!?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Wait…how can it be?

a day without a Pog win!?

Father Time finally catching up.

 

[Cookster15]

He is finally losing his baby fat. And his legs look like he’s doing some cycling at last… I hope the weight loss doesn’s affect his all-season performance peak.

I hope the weight loss means

I think you're right. Stating that 27-28 is the perfect cycling age might stem from the times when cycling was less scientific, at least in the junior ranks.
So it took time to detect the junior phenomena, and then some time to develop and train those. And then you're 27/28 when you're reaching the peak.

Nowadays, even juniors take monthly VO2max, lactate, ... tests and whatnot and already train like a pro. And they reach their peak sooner.

Maybe.

This is conjecturing not science.

Two examples:

1. Cadel Evans. Evans recorded his highest VO2 max when he was just 20 and still in MTB. He didn't win a grand tour until he was 34. Evans was under the AIS system so he had access to the best sports science.
2. We can also look at marathon racers. They also mature at a later age. Eliud Kipchoge was 37 when he set the incredible world record in September.

So kids like Pogi are exceptions not a sign of new training and scientific understanding.

 

[Nick2413]

I hope the weight loss means

This is conjecturing not science.

Two examples:

1. Cadel Evans. Evans recorded his highest VO2 max when he was just 20 and still in MTB. He didn't win a grand tour until he was 34. Evans was under the AIS system so he had access to the best sports science.
2. We can also look at marathon racers. They also mature at a later age. Eliud Kipchoge was 37 when he set the incredible world record in September.

So kids like Pogi are exceptions not a sign of new training and scientific understanding.

Kipchoge did indeed peak late but was probably at his real peak in early 30s as shoe technology has improved more than his times have improved in the last handful of years. As for Evans, there’s lots of factors involved that might have nothing to do with his natural physiology.

 

[Cookster15]

Kipchoge did indeed peak late but was probably at his real peak in early 30s as shoe technology has improved more than his times have improved in the last handful of years. As for Evans, there’s lots of factors involved that might have nothing to do with his natural physiology.

My point is a don’t think there is adequate evidence to state pro cyclists are maturing at a younger age due to training techniques. I just gave two examples.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I hope the weight loss means

This is conjecturing not science.

Two examples:

1. Cadel Evans. Evans recorded his highest VO2 max when he was just 20 and still in MTB. He didn't win a grand tour until he was 34. Evans was under the AIS system so he had access to the best sports science.
2. We can also look at marathon racers. They also mature at a later age. Eliud Kipchoge was 37 when he set the incredible world record in September.

So kids like Pogi are exceptions not a sign of new training and scientific understanding.

Recently there have been many guys excelling at GTs at the age of 25 or less: Pogacar, Evenepoel, Bernal, Vingegaard, Hindley, Hart, Ayuso. Is it all a coincidence? Just a golden gen? I have my theory on that matter (regarding advanced training methods of very young cyclists) but it's not for this part of the forum. As for marathon runners, ok their endurance is still very strong at the age of 35 but OTOH look at the best ever 10k times. All achieved by young guys. In cycling races are often decided by 30-min or so efforts. Obviously you need a great aerobic base in long races but you also need a superb engine for those final pushes in races to be the best. And those young cyclists obviously have them (they have both).

 

[Extinction]

I think you're right. Stating that 27-28 is the perfect cycling age might stem from the times when cycling was less scientific, at least in the junior ranks.
So it took time to detect the junior phenomena, and then some time to develop and train those. And then you're 27/28 when you're reaching the peak.

Nowadays, even juniors take monthly VO2max, lactate, ... tests and whatnot and already train like a pro. And they reach their peak sooner.

Maybe.

Training is one thing, physiological peak is another, thus I still maintain 27-28 is the perfect cycling age. What might change that is mental burnout from accumulated performance demands and fatigue. Yet physiologically speaking you should be stronger at 27-28 than 21-22. This is why in theory I would expect Pogacar to get physically better over the next 3-4 years and be able to maintain peak condition for another 3. It will be interesting to see if indeed that happens or, because they are training them like pros from the juniors category, burnout sets in before reaching peak physiological maturity.

Until the 80s pretty much the exceptional talents were winning GTs or getting on the podium at 22-23. Jan Ulrich too was of that ilk. And bar injury or other illicit circumstances, the best age was upper 20s-low 30s. Indurain won his 5 Tours in this age bracket. Yet the science of preparation has advanced such that to be as good as Pog is now at his age could risk leaving him burnt out before reaching his late 20s. Only time will tell, but he seems nonplussed by the rigors of the sport and took completely in stride defeat at the last Tour, so he may just keep improving. We'll see.

 

[Big Doopie]

Phew.

Yesterday was clearly an aberration.

 

[KZD]

50 pro wins in little more than 4 seasons. Congratulations.

 

[Salvarani]

Campionissimo!

50th win!

What a rider!

 

[Berniece]

I'm really looking forward to strade bianche, that he's winning these races isn't that surprising, the real test is against WVA, MDVP, JA

 

[Netserk]

And we likely have to go back to Saronni? to find the most recent rider to join these three:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1626957321287921666

View: https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1626957321287921666

 

[CyclistAbi]

Congratulations for reaching 50.

 

[Extinction]

Half-centenarian at 23.

 

[Cookster15]

Incredible. I just hope he doesn't lose any form before the TdF?

 

[Oldermanish]

I do worry he doesn't know when to day no. Every day seems to be balls to the wall. Great for us but may cost him again in TdF. I hope not though, he rides the way we want them all to ride.

Watching the last 15km of Stage 4 Andalucia today was totally enjoyable. The Irish commentators were gleefully appreciating how he was toying with everyone, including Mas. At times he appeared to encourage attacks and allow gaps to form so he could get some exercise chasing and then gapping his opponents. I love it!
This early form is just that: early form. 3 months from now there'll be a few more guys capable and Tadej does need to mind his work load but I'll enjoy his exurberance until then.

 

[Monsi]

Incredible. I just hope he doesn't lose any form before the TdF?

Well, for the past two seasons, Pogacar has been able to peak thrice during each season (Spring, TDF, Lombardia). Pogacar is looking to do the same again this season. Now we just don't know if he's already reached peak shape for spring. We know his main targets for spring are the big one-day races (Strade, MSR, and RVV) so who knows if what we're watching right now is already peak Pogacar.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Well, for the past two seasons, Pogacar has been able to peak thrice during each season (Spring, TDF, Lombardia). Pogacar is looking to do the same again this season. Now we just don't know if he's already reached peak shape for spring. We know his main targets for spring are the big one-day races (Strade, MSR, and RVV) so who knows if what we're watching right now is already peak Pogacar.

Yes, it's more or less like that:

1. early spring peak
2. some form drop in april and pre-Tour preparations in may, june
3. Tour peak
4. sharp post-Tour form decline
5. short autumn peak (for Lombardia)

To me it seems that his spring peak is not worse than his Tour peak (esp. last year's). We will see how it will be this year. He said something about more gradual preparations but it doesn't seem like that. If he's entering his first peak right now he may be unable to keep it even until RVV.

 

[Monsi]

Yes, it's more or less like that:

1. early spring peak
2. some form drop in april and pre-Tour preparations in may, june
3. Tour peak
4. sharp post-Tour form decline
5. short autumn peak (for Lombardia)

To me it seems that his spring peak is not worse than his Tour peak (esp. last year's). We will see how it will be this year. He said something about more gradual preparations but it doesn't seem like that. If he's entering his first peak right now he may be unable to keep it even until RVV.

This early season dominance is either due to Pogacar already close to peak form (if he's not yet in peak form) or the rest of the competition just not yet close to peaking. Of course, if he wants this peak to go on until Liege, he should not be peaking right now. It's definitely a scary thought if the Pog we're watching right now is like "only" around 80% peak.

 

[Red Rick]

Let's be real. If everyone in this field is on the same part of the form curve, Pogacar wins.

 

[Extinction]

This early season dominance is either due to Pogacar already close to peak form (if he's not yet in peak form) or the rest of the competition just not yet close to peaking. Of course, if he wants this peak to go on until Liege, he should not be peaking right now. It's definitely a scary thought if the Pog we're watching right now is like "only" around 80% peak.

You'd think they would know what they are doing at UAE and that Pog hasn't peaked yet.

 

[how yes no?]

I'll just go out there and wildly speculate that last year we had a combination of things not going the right way for Tadej and he did really good considering all that, but far from what he is actually capable of with the weights off.
That's also indicated by him stating multiple times of being proud of the season and considering it a very good one, because he would know all the circumstances of it.
Being very close to a young person whose parent is departing has a toll, not so much on the racing, but the everyday-mental-and-training life, specially as Tadej is not a person who is used to unsolvable problems where he has even no control.
When suffering because your dear ones are suffering (saddness) it can be even more "frustrating" than if you would suffer yourself... because you have so little control of the situation... as much "elastic yellow bracelet" as it might have seemed, him starting the cancer research foundation was the only reasonable thing he could do apart from being there for Urška and as such is another proof of the thing occupying his thoughts and life last year... it's hard to properly focus on preparation in such circumstances, Tadej might be "cannibal", but he was never a "terminator".
There was also the pressure of duel with Primož, for which Tadej will always be "accussed" of "stealing" Primožes 20' Tour in the minds of sadly not too few Slovenians. Tadej was aware of that and intentionally or not, had the pressure of trying to be extra nice "public-friendly". While on the international scale it was the same-but-different, with him being forced into lone superstar role as a consecutive tour winner and up to that moment, seemingly "the next Mercx".
This was then combined with him still being great in the spring (continuation of great previous season - long "winning" streak) and seemingly unbeatable at the start of the tour... that made him over-confident... which made him make mistakes both in tactics as in concentrating on proper nutrition and hydration in the Granon stage.
Again combined, this time with a ill-(luck)-struck team that was not capable of alleviating the pressure Vingo and Primož could mount on him. After Granon, tour was lost, even if McNulty did a great ride on the Hautacam stage... Tadej never (last tour) had the form to drop Jonas in high mountains in the first place... but I believe he was still good enough to probably successfully defend the lead he had before Granon "had things not gone like they did".

Anyway... I would not judge Tadej peak by last year results... and I believe he learned so much important lessons last year, that we'll see a whole new animal this year and what we are seeing now is far from it's final form.