Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Nick2413]

I don’t doubt Pogacar would beat a modern day Merckx with all the bells and whistles of today. But would Pogacar beat as many farmers as Merckx did if racing in that era’s conditions and preparation? Completely different ballgame and impossible to know.

 

[Berniece]

He is definitely the best classics riders and there can be absolutely no doubt about that even if MVDP is amazing.

He is, by a wide margin, the best stage racer in one week races.

Vingegaard is better at TdF. Would that be the case in the Giro? Not so sure.

I agree that he’s the best 1-week stage racer. Don’t say this in the Roglic topic though.

The rest I don’t agree with.

 

[tobydawq]

I agree that he’s the best 1-week stage racer. Don’t say this in the Roglic topic though.

The rest I don’t agree with.

The way he beat Van der Poel on his own turf last year in De Ronde certainly indeed proves how inferior he is to Van der Poel.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Pogacar was beating MVDP on his own turf in Flanders and is basically dominating every classic known to mankind in a way that MVDP can only do in a select few races.

 

[tobydawq]

What ever happened to @mou anyway?

He probably got a lengthy ban because he couldn't refrain from insulting people.

 

[Froome]

He is definitely the best classics riders and there can be absolutely no doubt about that even if MVDP is amazing.

He is, by a wide margin, the best stage racer in one week races.

Vingegaard is better at TdF. Would that be the case in the Giro? Not so sure.

Why wouldn't Vingegaard be better than Pogacar on the Giro? I actually think the old hard routes of the Giro, especially in the third week, would benefit even more Vingegaard, because the famous long plus steep climbs with altitude like colle delle Finestre, Gavia, mortirolo, fauniera, Stelvio are even more better for Vingegaard than climbs like the usual climbs of the Tour who normally are less steep with some exeptions.

Vingegaard is also good in the cold, no problem about that.

 

[Froome]

I agree that he’s the best 1-week stage racer. Don’t say this in the Roglic topic though.

The rest I don’t agree with.

No worries, CyclistAbi has been off.

 

[Froome]

The conversation about Merckx beating farmers is also funny, because Pogacar beat farmers in almost all of the races he did this year.

It’s a shame for some reasons(some of them, not Pogacar's fault), we never saw him face Vingegaard, Roglic and Remco evenepoel.

He is going to the Giro, and he will not face anyone relevant again. We need to wait for the Tour.

 

[Berniece]

The way he beat Van der Poel on his own turf last year in De Ronde certainly indeed proves how inferior he is to Van der Poel.

Pogacar was beating MVDP on his own turf in Flanders and is basically dominating every classic known to mankind in a way that MVDP can only do in a select few races.

He wasn’t in the same form as he was during the WC RR and this year’s Ronde, according to himself. So I’m not sure he would beat him

 

[tobydawq]

He wasn’t in the same form as he was during the WC RR and this year’s Ronde, according to himself. So I’m not sure he would beat him

Okay (actually not), then Pogacar's loss to Vingegaard in the Tour doesn't count either because of insufficient preparation.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Van der Poel was in great shape last year, as was Pogacar. This year both have upped their game further and are even stronger. Who improved most? Impossible to say, but facts are Pogacar beat a peak and prime Van der Poel fair and square when he waived goodbye in the bottom of Kwaremont. That was as clean a race as you can get.

 

[Berniece]

Van der Poel was in great shape last year, as was Pogacar. This year both have upped their game further and are even stronger. Who improved most? Impossible to say, but facts are Pogacar beat a peak and prime Van der Poel fair and square when he waived goodbye in the bottom of Kwaremont. That was as clean a race as you can get.

And he was destroyed during the WC RR

 

[Valv.Piti]

And he was destroyed during the WC RR

And MVDP was destroyed during Liege. Was very mediocre in Amstel, a race Pogacar dominated last year. We can continue this to the end of time, you see?

Pogacar has a wider range of classics he can win AND has shown to be even better than MVDP in the race that suits him the best on the calender.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

The conversation about Merckx beating farmers is also funny, because Pogacar beat farmers in almost all of the races he did this year.

I don't think he's beat any farmers this year, or at least not anyone who was considered a possible threat to him. It's not like Mauri Vansevenant's farm work keeps him from training like a pro.

 

[Berniece]

And MVDP was destroyed during Liege. Was very mediocre in Amstel, a race Pogacar dominated last year. We can continue this to the end of time, you see?

Pogacar has a wider range of classics he can win AND has shown to be even better than MVDP in the race that suits him the best on the calender.

And I still don’t see him as the best single day rider

 

[Valv.Piti]

And I still don’t see him as the best single day rider

Fair enough, obviously wrong, but fair enough.

 

[YavorD]

And he was destroyed during the WC RR

A course that was tailor made for MVDP (of course nothing wrong with that).
If WCRR next year has a Lombardia-like course is MVDP even in contention?

Hell, if Pogacar isn't toi tired for Zurich, he would destroy MVDP there already. So what? Both are great classic riders but while Pogacar can sometimes get close to MVDP on his own turf and sometimes even beat him, Van Der Poel isn't close to Pogacar in most of the hilly one day races (that doesn't have cobbles).

 

[Peyroteo94]

A course that was tailor made for MVDP (of course nothing wrong with that).
If WCRR next year has a Lombardia-like course is MVDP even in contention?

Hell, if Pogacar isn't toi tired for Zurich, he would destroy MVDP there already. So what? Both are great classic riders but while Pogacar can sometimes get close to MVDP on his own turf and sometimes even beat him, Van Der Poel isn't close to Pogacar in most of the hilly one day races (that doesn't have cobbles).

TY! And we can add Pogi was very tired after the Tour and didn't make an optimal preparation for Glasgow. The same can't be said about MVP.

 

[YavorD]

TY! And we can add Pogi was very tired after the Tour and didn't make an optimal preparation for Glasgow. The same can't be said about MVP.

Let's be honest, no. Even with an optimal preparation Pogacar wouldn't be close to VDP on that course.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Let's be honest, no. Even with an optimal preparation Pogacar wouldn't be close to VDP on that course.

You don't know. I still think MVP would win though

 

[scribers]

TY! And we can add Pogi was very tired after the Tour and didn't make an optimal preparation for Glasgow. The same can't be said about MVP.

I was stunned at how well pogi did at glasgow

 

[tobydawq]

And I still don’t see him as the best single day rider

Not insufferable debating style at all.

 

[Extinction]

Every sport demonstrate that. In the beginning of every sport, we had massive differences between riders/teams/clubs and the tendency is to this gap reduce with time.
We no longer see a player so dominant as Hendry or Steve Davis in snooker (or Joe Davis in the beginning of the sport)
We no longer see Real Madrid or big national teams win 10-0 regularly.
We no longer see a franchise like Celtics win and obliterate the NBA.
We no longer see a rider like Merckx in cycling that win every important race.
I have nothing against Merckx however we have a different sport now, a lot more competitive and balanced sport with way more professional riders.
For me Pogacar is the GOAT of "new cycling" (specialization era).

It comes down to genetics: if Merckx is superior to Pogacar then he does better, but between generations and all the tech/dddjyrvb advancements it's not possible to know. So going on palmares is futile, in so far as the gap between epochs is irreconciliable. For you would have to put Merckx in Pogacar's era and vice versa, which is impossible.

 

[Berniece]

Not insufferable debating style at all.

Haha. I don’t think there’s much to discuss, we named all the reasons why one is better than the other and we disagree.

 

[Nick2413]

View: https://youtu.be/p8_FOQ7-P30?si=8qWDla781oXAIuEd