Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[BlueRoads]

Maybe I would start to like Pogacar more if you would call him Tadej, which is a very nice name, instead of Pog or, worse, Pogi.

 

[bNator]

Pog is a weakling. He only wins when Rog generously decides to have a bad day and donate a victory to his friend.

Not to mention Evenepoel crashing on purpose to give poor Pogi a head start.

On topic of Pogacar attending tour of Slovenia - I’m sure he‘s doing it to gain on popularity in Slovenia. And it’s going to work, too. I really hope the route will be adequate this time around with enough climbing involved...

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Maybe I would start to like Pogacar more if you would call him Tadej, which is a very nice name, instead of Pog or, worse, Pogi.

Just call him acar instead. He's got the right speed for it too.

 

[Netserk]

Maybe I would start to like Pogacar more if you would call him Tadej, which is a very nice name, instead of Pog or, worse, Pogi.

Please no. Tamau is an alternative option.

 

[bNator]

Maybe I would start to like Pogacar more if you would call him Tadej, which is a very nice name, instead of Pog or, worse, Pogi.

Well, Pogi is his choice and a nickname he’s kept since childhood. It sound good in Slovenian, of course in English it would be pronounced with “Y”. Like Rocky What’s not to like?

 

[tobydawq]

Maybe I would start to like Pogacar more if you would call him Tadej, which is a very nice name, instead of Pog or, worse, Pogi.

What a lame reason for liking a person or not...

I really don't think the other poster's liking of you would be affected if I began to call you Roadie...

 

[Bonimenier]

What a lame reason for liking a person or not...

I really don't think the other poster's liking of you would be affected if I began to call you Roadie...

Roadie is fine, Roadi however...

 

[BlueRoads]

What a lame reason for liking a person or not...

I really don't think the other poster's liking of you would be affected if I began to call you Roadie...

Don't you dare!

Okay, it's not a reason and like I said in another thread it's not that I don't like him, I just do not like him.
But Pogi... Pidders... I always think you invented that stuff... and then you say the riders call themselves like that... Why, when their mothers have given them nice, decent names...

 

[johnymax]

This sounds weird, preparing for the Tour with the Tour of Slovenia... but since Roglic doesn't even do that one and other GT contenders skip preparation races completely... okay.

Not to mention Evenepoel crashing on purpose to give poor Pogi a head start.

On topic of Pogacar attending tour of Slovenia - I’m sure he‘s doing it to gain on popularity in Slovenia. And it’s going to work, too. I really hope the route will be adequate this time around with enough climbing involved...

That and he wants to finally win the race.

But is not that odd at all for some riders not to choose a traditional path to the Tour with Dauphine or Suisse. Some prefer less stress and less days of racing before the Tour to keep the freshness. Especially if they have other goals after the Tour.

In the past Roglic and Brajkovic both raced Tour of Slovenia as a preparation race for the TdF. Same for Uran, Majka (not sure about this one) and some sprinters. Roglic raced ZLM Tour one year. Contador, Quintana, Valverde, Thomas, if I recall correctly, have all prepared the Tour through Route du Sud in the past.

 

[Nick2413]

I think it's a lot about the body fat percentage, but that isn't a factor set in stone.

I was about to say that on my comment. I mean these guys are all tiny and stick thin but he does look a tad bit less veiny, maybe that makes a significant difference at that level.

 

[Tinnekeisabella]

Mcnulty has been taken out of the giro team and is now on the tour shortlist.

i wonder whose place he is going to take?

would this be the team?

Pogacar
Formolo
Polanc
Kristoff
Delacruz
Majka
mcnulty
?

 

[Offline]

Mcnulty has been taken out of the giro team and is now on the tour shortlist.

i wonder whose place he is going to take?

would this be the team?

Pogacar
Formolo
Polanc
Kristoff
Delacruz
Majka
mcnulty
?

Pogacar, Majka, Formolo, Polanc and McNulty forsure
De la Cruz Crashed at LBL and was taking from Romandie. So I guess he is a maybe.
New rumors say they don't bring Kristoff.
Pogacar just said last week he hope Bjerg will be in form for the tour.
And personally still think Trentin with his amazing form this year would be a option.
Ivo Oliveira also a option.

I hope for:

Pogacar, Majka, Formolo, Polanc, De la Cruz, McNulty, Trentin, Bjerg.

 

[BlueRoads]

Ehm, Hirschi?

 

[Offline]

Ehm, Hirschi?

Oh *** I forgot. What a team

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Mcnulty has been taken out of the giro team and is now on the tour shortlist.

i wonder whose place he is going to take?

Apparently Tadej prefers watching the Tour on TV to riding it.

 

[Big Doopie]

Do you know of any other rider who was younger than 23?

Edited.

 

[pink_jersey]

Oh *** I forgot. What a team

Dunno about that. This team really lacks a good mountain domestique for the big cols. I suspect that Pogi will be alone when Sky will have the likes of Carapaz, Porte, Thomas, and Tao
in the group and Jumbo Roglic and Kuss.
Majka and De la Cruz were bad this year and Hirschi is just finding his form(he'll probably come good in TdF) but he's not one for the big mountains anyway.

 

[johnymax]

Dunno about that. This team really lacks a good mountain domestique for the big cols. I suspect that Pogi will be alone when Sky will have the likes of Carapaz, Porte, Thomas, and Tao
in the group and Jumbo Roglic and Kuss.
Majka and De la Cruz were bad this year and Hirschi is just finding his form(he'll probably come good in TdF) but he's not one for the big mountains anyway.

Jumbo Roglic and Kuss? Try with Roglic, Kuss, Kruijswijk, Vingegaard and Van Aert. I'm only half joking.

But I agree with you. A lot depends on Majka's form. If he reaches close to his top shape, he'll be there with the rest of the names we mentioned. I'd be surprised if De la Cruz is there. I can't remember when was the last time he was close to a top 10 climber in a race. He was good in the Col de la Loze stage, but that's not enough. McNulty, Formolo and Hirschi are good climbing domestiques, but for medium mountain stages. In the high mountains I don't rate them that high. Polanc just isn't good enough to be that guy.

Buy there's an easy way to cope with the problem. Just attack and ride away of everyone else. Problem solved.

 

[Nick2413]

Jumbo Roglic and Kuss? Try with Roglic, Kuss, Kruijswijk, Vingegaard and Van Aert. I'm only half joking.

But I agree with you. A lot depends on Majka's form. If he reaches close to his top shape, he'll be there with the rest of the names we mentioned. I'd be surprised if De la Cruz is there. I can't remember when was the last time he was close to a top 10 climber in a race. He was good in the Col de la Loze stage, but that's not enough. McNulty, Formolo and Hirschi are good climbing domestiques, but for medium mountain stages. In the high mountains I don't rate them that high. Polanc just isn't good enough to be that guy.

Buy there's an easy way to cope with the problem. Just attack and ride away of everyone else. Problem solved.

I’m newer to cycling and still having trouble understanding how teams help especially on mountain stages. The drafting effect is minimal and the high pace is just as hard for Roglic as it is for Pog. For example I do remember Roglic bested Pog on col de la Loz last year and had Kuss helping, but how did that really do anything?

 

[johnymax]

I’m newer to cycling and still having trouble understanding how teams help especially on mountain stages. The drafting effect is minimal and the high pace is just as hard for Roglic as it is for Pog. For example I do remember Roglic bested Pog on col de la Loz last year and had Kuss helping, but how did that really do anything?

It depends on the speed they are going. On a gradient of 6-8% the help with drafting can still be significant. If the climb is steeper 12%+ it's true, the effect of drafting is minimal. There are tiny differences between the best riders in the world and every minimal help you can get at this level is important. I've read recently a scientific article about drafting and they found out that even if the riders are going as slow as 13kph, there is still some effect of drafting.

On the really steep gradients having a teammate with you also helps when you get in difficulty. Not so much because of the drafting (like we said, it's minimal), but mainly because you have a visual point of reference, a teammate who is pacing you and the only thing you concentrate on, is following the teammate. It may save you 5 seconds. It doesn't sound much, but in the end those 5 seconds might be important.

In the scenario the OP suggested, if Pogi remains alone with multiple Ineos and Jumbo riders, it becomes especially handy if those riders are also high in the GC standings. If let's say Tao and Kuss attack and get clear and they are both less than a minute behind Pogi in GC, then Pogi has to chase them, the other Ineos and Jumbo riders just follow. In the Tour you rarely see those really steep slopes like you find in the Vuelta or Giro, so on the majority of climbs the drafting is still important. With every extra effort Pogi has to do in comparison to his main rivals, the accumulative fatigue increases and in the end that can be crucial.

In your example of Col de la Loze, if I remember correctly Lopez and Kuss attacked first, then when they were 10s ahead Roglič jumped from Pogačar and caught Kuss who was in the meantime dropped by Lopez (or he eased up waiting for Roglič). Kuss was then pacing Rogla for about a minute. Loze is very steep at the top (average around 10% in the last 4km), but is very irregular. There were also some flattish sections and I'm sure Kuss was of some help for Rogla. Again, not much, maybe 5 seconds, but sometimes that's all you need. We all know it wasn't enough in the end, though. He needed much more than that.

 

[bNator]

It depends on the speed they are going. On a gradient of 6-8% the help with drafting can still be significant. If the climb is steeper 12%+ it's true, the effect of drafting is minimal. There are tiny differences between the best riders in the world and every minimal help you can get at this level is important. I've read recently a scientific article about drafting and they found out that even if the riders are going as slow as 13kph, there is still some effect of drafting.

On the really steep gradients having a teammate with you also helps when you get in difficulty. Not so much because of the drafting (like we said, it's minimal), but mainly because you have a visual point of reference, a teammate who is pacing you and the only thing you concentrate on, is following the teammate. It may save you 5 seconds. It doesn't sound much, but in the end those 5 seconds might be important.

In the scenario the OP suggested, if Pogi remains alone with multiple Ineos and Jumbo riders, it becomes especially handy if those riders are also high in the GC standings. If let's say Tao and Kuss attack and get clear and they are both less than a minute behind Pogi in GC, then Pogi has to chase them, the other Ineos and Jumbo riders just follow. In the Tour you rarely see those really steep slopes like you find in the Vuelta or Giro, so on the majority of climbs the drafting is still important. With every extra effort Pogi has to do in comparison to his main rivals, the accumulative fatigue increases and in the end that can be crucial.

In your example of Col de la Loze, if I remember correctly Lopez and Kuss attacked first, then when they were 10s ahead Roglič jumped from Pogačar and caught Kuss who was in the meantime dropped by Lopez (or he eased up waiting for Roglič). Kuss was then pacing Rogla for about a minute. Loze is very steep at the top (average around 10% in the last 4km), but is very irregular. There were also some flattish sections and I'm sure Kuss was of some help for Rogla. Again, not much, maybe 5 seconds, but sometimes that's all you need. We all know it wasn't enough in the end, though. He needed much more than that.

A very good explanation. I would add that if you have teammates they can cover the attacks. There are several ways to do this. In the simplest implementation, you just use your teammates as dampers so you have to do much less accelerations. A more advanced option (which is not always feasible) would be to heave one of your teammates (preferably quite high in GC - let’s say Kruiswijk or Kuss) follow the attacker (Pogacar) threatening to drop him once he gets tired and gaining GC advantage over him thus forcing him to attack more carefully. In the meantime you have you diesel-engine teammate (let’s say WvA) bring you back or at least keep you relatively close so you can bridge yourself once the attacker is tired.

There are of course different variations how to deploy your team in the climb and not all of them are feasible. For instance, TJV might not have a guy that is close in GC and at the same time is capable of following Pogacars attack. Kuss could have the acceleration to follow but will not be a GC threat to Pogi while WvA and Kruijswijk should be a GC threat but are both diesels incapable of following Tadej’s accelerations. Ineos could be better off in this respect because they have explosive GC threat guy (Carapaz if on form) which could cover attacks for G…

Edit: and another important thing - as @johnymax already hinted, if the attacker is too strong all these fancy tactical options won’t do a thing. Then you still have Kuss pace you up the Angliru and saving you a couple of seconds that you can use to win la Vuelta one week later…

 

[SafeBet]

I’m newer to cycling and still having trouble understanding how teams help especially on mountain stages. The drafting effect is minimal and the high pace is just as hard for Roglic as it is for Pog. For example I do remember Roglic bested Pog on col de la Loz last year and had Kuss helping, but how did that really do anything?

@johnymax and @bNator made many valid points.
I'll add that having a teammate with you in multimountain stages might save you the race in case you have a mechanical at crucial times or you get distanced in a descent for whatever reason (crash, fear, splits).

Granted, this happens rarely in the TDF, where 95% of the action occurs on the last climb or MTF, but you still have to account for such scenarios and be prepared for them.

Of course if your teammate has the yellow jersey and the team car doesn't make him work you're in trouble.

 

[Oldermanish]

A very good explanation. I would add that if you have teammates they can cover the attacks. There are several ways to do this. In the simplest implementation, you just use your teammates as dampers so you have to do much less accelerations. A more advanced option (which is not always feasible) would be to heave one of your teammates (preferably quite high in GC - let’s say Kruiswijk or Kuss) follow the attacker (Pogacar) threatening to drop him once he gets tired and gaining GC advantage over him thus forcing him to attack more carefully. In the meantime you have you diesel-engine teammate (let’s say WvA) bring you back or at least keep you relatively close so you can bridge yourself once the attacker is tired.

There are of course different variations how to deploy your team in the climb and not all of them are feasible. For instance, TJV might not have a guy that is close in GC and at the same time is capable of following Pogacars attack. Kuss could have the acceleration to follow but will not be a GC threat to Pogi while WvA and Kruijswijk should be a GC threat but are both diesels incapable of following Tadej’s accelerations. Ineos could be better of in this respect because they have explosive GC threat guy (Caracaz if in form) which could cover attacks for G…

Edit: and another important thing - as @johnymax already hinted, if the attacker is too strong all these fancy tactical options won’t do a thing. Then you still have Kuss pace you up the Angliru and saving you a couple of seconds that you can use to win la Vuelta one week later…

A classic micro-moment played out at LBL at 12km where Pogacar followed the front guys that made the final selection. Roglic had settled behind Tadej's teammate (who was behind Pogi) with another UAE rider on the centerline just as the road ramped up. Roglic couldn't see the action because of the increased road pitch and Tadej's teammate in front of him. When he recognized the building gap; he had to negotiate himself out of the UAE congestion to chase and the race was lost on that 10 seconds. It's not legal to "block" an opponent but and they did nothing incorrect. If the opponent is not paying attention you can ride your line at your pace and allow him to take the long route. That sort of extra effort x 20 stages is as tiring mentally as physically. Add that to the other great points made above.

 

[Red Rick]

Only reason he sat on those UAE guys was that he had already cracked

 

[Oldermanish]

Only reason he sat on those UAE guys was that he had already cracked

Maybe, to an extent. He also reacted and chased hard enough afterward so he may think about that strategically. It would have been reasonable to have some assistance for the final 12km but UAE's guys were right there. Just another possible example of team help on long climbs.