Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Elos Anjos]

That's clearly an AI added skyers. Probably there's some kitty in the frame if you bother to look into it.

 

[Offline]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1792575971754692998

View: https://twitter.com/VelonCC/status/1792575971754692998

 

[SHAD0W93]

Where is everyone hyping Geriant Thomas up due to his strong team and Pogacar doing the double? All we hear is how Pogacar is like Brady, the LOAT.

 

[Peyroteo94]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1792575971754692998

View: https://twitter.com/VelonCC/status/1792575971754692998

"He can't handle the high altitude". Sometimes I don't know if we are talking about Pogacar or if we are talking about Valverde

 

[pihi42]

Now that Teddy is on the verge of winning his second GT on the first try, is there anyone out there that did it (besides
Eddy who won his first Tour and Vuelta, but only his 2nd Giro)?

 

[tobydawq]

That's clearly an AI added skyers. Probably there's some kitty in the frame if you bother to look into it.

So the video is AI too? Sounds plausible...

 

[tobydawq]

Now that Teddy is on the verge of winning his second GT on the first try, is there anyone out there that did it (besides
Eddy who won his first Tour and Vuelta, but only his 2nd Giro)?

Hinault did it. His worst GT result was 2nd.

But that must be it since Merckx didn't do it. Anquetil, Gimondi, Nibali, Contador and Froome certainly didn't do it, and that's all the riders who won all the Grand Tours.

 

[Cookster15]

"He can't handle the high altitude". Sometimes I don't know if we are talking about Pogacar or if we are talking about Valverde

It is noteworthy that Pogacar's nemesis mountain Col de la Loze tops out at 2,304 metres. Yesterday he crushed everyone with ease climbing to 2,385 metres. But this is "not that high" according to some here . Does anyone now seriously believe that Pogacar would have suffered had the weather not intervened and cut Stelvio from tomorrow?

Pretty sure, if they were riding this race, that Felix Gall and Simon Yates (who finished 2nd and 3rd behind Vingegaard on the '23 TdF Loze stage) would have met a similar fate as Thomas and Martinez yesterday.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Contador won Giro and Vuelta on his first try. Tour on his second try

 

[Red Rick]

So the video is AI too? Sounds plausible...

Now you mention it, I have never seen Tadej Pogacar in real life.

Have you?

 

[Red Rick]

It is noteworthy that Pogacar's nemesis mountain Col de la Loze tops out at 2,304 metres. Yesterday he crushed everyone with ease climbing to 2,385 metres. But this is "not that high" according to some here . Does anyone now seriously believe that Pogacar would have suffered had the weather not intervened and cut Stelvio from tomorrow?

Pretty sure if they were riding this race that Felix Gall and Simon Yates (who finished 2nd and 3rd behind Vingegaard on the '23 TdF Loze stage) would have met a similar fate as Thomas and Martinez yesterday.

Pogacar lost time on the final steep section, clearly he can't do it above 2200m.

To be serious, there is more to altitude then just finish altitude, and I think effects get bigger the more intense the effort is and the less you go back to low altitude in the valley.

 

[Peyroteo94]

He didn't lose 7 minutes because of Loze. If we had a mountain stage at sea level, he would still lose at least 5 minutes. He was destroyed mentally due to the TT. Altitude didn't play any role.

 

[Cookster15]

To be serious, there is more to altitude then just finish altitude, and I think effects get bigger the more intense the effort is and the less you go back to low altitude in the valley.

You may be right. More evidence needed. But Pogacar surprised me yesterday. Nothing to test him the remainder of this Giro as the competition is too far back to pressure him and Stelvio was cut.

 

[tobydawq]

Now you mention it, I have never seen Tadej Pogacar in real life.

Have you?

Yes, I saw him a few times at the 22 Grand Départ, most prominently when he complimented Dennis Ritter on his 'dress'.

 

[snipeheem]

He didn't lose 7 minutes becuase of Loze. If we had a mountain stage at sea level, he would still lose at least 5 minutes. He was destroyed mentally due to the TT. Altitude didn't play any role.

I think u forget about wrist injury

 

[Red Rick]

Yes, I saw him a few times at the 22 Grand Départ, most prominently when he complimented Dennis Ritter on his 'dress'.

Bet that was an actor

 

[Cookster15]

He didn't lose 7 minutes becuase of Loze. If we had a mountain stage at sea level, he would still lose at least 5 minutes. He was destroyed mentally due to the TT. Altitude didn't play any role.

Evidence doesn't suggest that:

Pogacar lost 15 secs to Roglic in 2020 TdF MTF on Loze.
Blew on Granon in 2022 TdF (2,400metres).
Blew completely on Loze in 2023 TdF - the day after a huge effort in the TT.

I am sure you can see why many wondered about Pog at altitude before yesterday. In 23 TdF he rode a strong TT by his standards, it was just that Vingegard was on another planet and yet again we forget the wrist injury must have reduced the volume of training he could do which always hurts recovery after big efforts like that TT. And I am not sure Pog is so mentally fragile he would let that get to him on Loze and throw in the towel?

 

[CyclistAbi]

Great performance on stage 15, a race defining one. Likely being reassuring too, that training is on the right track. Weight under control, no loss of power in ITT, on both types of terrain, top tier level climbing, punch still seem to be there. Looking forward to the Tour. As for remainder of the Giro, it's still not in the bag, so there is that, beyond that what now. A dilemma that will likely already get answered tomorrow. Pogi likely up for some more.

 

[Extinction]

Evidence doesn't suggest that: those

Pogacar lost 15 secs to Roglic in 2020 TdF MTF on Loze.
Blew on Granon in 2022 TdF (2,400metres).
Blew completely on Loze in 2023 TdF - the day after a huge effort in the TT.

I am sure you can see why many wondered about Pog at altitude before yesterday. In 23 TdF he rode a strong TT by his standards, it was just that Vingegard was on another planet and yet again we forget the wrist injury must have reduced the volume of training he could do which always hurts recovery after big efforts like that TT. And I am not sure Pog is so mentally fragile he would let that get to him on Loze and throw in the towel?

Livigno showed Pog doesn't have problems with altitude, but was in compromising situations those other times AND Vingo was aerobically more efficient. I don't think he will be bothered by altitude per se.

 

[Fos]

Evidence doesn't suggest that:

Pogacar lost 15 secs to Roglic in 2020 TdF MTF on Loze.
Blew on Granon in 2022 TdF (2,400metres).
Blew completely on Loze in 2023 TdF - the day after a huge effort in the TT.

I am sure you can see why many wondered about Pog at altitude before yesterday. In 23 TdF he rode a strong TT by his standards, it was just that Vingegard was on another planet and yet again we forget the wrist injury must have reduced the volume of training he could do which always hurts recovery after big efforts like that TT. And I am not sure Pog is so mentally fragile he would let that get to him on Loze and throw in the towel?

Pogacar lost 15 secs to Roglic in 2020 TdF MTF on Loze.
Firsts Tour, let him take a breath. Jonas has shown weakness in some altitude climbing too, Portet?.

Blew on Granon in 2022 TdF (2,400metres).
After pacing all Jumbo climbing Galibier and not eating in the descend.

Blew completely on Loze in 2023 TdF - the day after a huge effort in the TT.
The lack of preparation (everybody know the story) shows in the hardest stages.

You will agree that it does not matter if you adapt more or less to the altitude, any defect in shape will be seen sooner here than in other less difficult stages. Marie Blanque adapts perfectly to him and also bit the dust (example).

In addition, he has had great performances on the rest of the great peaks.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Evidence doesn't suggest that:

Pogacar lost 15 secs to Roglic in 2020 TdF MTF on Loze.
Blew on Granon in 2022 TdF (2,400metres).
Blew completely on Loze in 2023 TdF - the day after a huge efort in the TT.

I am sure you can see why many wondered about Pog at altitude before yesterday. In 23 TdF he rode a strong TT by his standards, it was just that Vingegard was on another planet and yet again we forget the wrist injury must have reduced the volume of training he could do which always hurts recovery after big efforts like that TT. And I am not sure Pog is so mentally fragile he would let that get to him on Loze and throw in the towel?

Now, can you put his good performances at altitude? Losing 15 seconds is nothing so I will exclude that so you have 2 bad performances.
Now look:
2019 Vuelta, stage 9 - Cortals d'Encamp (2086m)
He lost more time in stages close to sea level.

2021 Tour, stage 9 - Tignes (2119m).
2021 Tour, stage 17 - Col du Portet (2209m).
I could put Luz Ardiden because they did the Tourmalet but I won't count this.

2023 Tour, stage 6 - He won the stage after following Vingegaard easily in the Tourmalet, the day before he was completely cooked by Vingegaard.

2024 Catalunya, stage 2 - He destroyed the field in Valter 2000

2024 Giro, stage 15 - it is recent, you know what happened.

There are stages where he lost big time to Vingegaard, below 2000m. For example Hautacum or Marie Blanque.
His suboptimal preparation and facing Vingegaard (an extraordinary alien) are way more obvious reasons to Pogacar's failures than altitude.

 

[Froome]

Hardly validates it. Today wasnt that much altitude, and the overall stage length and fatigue was more important

Ability in altitude on steep ramps >10% is also different from the ability in ramps <10%. Mottolino didn’t looked so well.

 

[Cookster15]

Pogacar lost 15 secs to Roglic in 2020 TdF MTF on Loze.
Firsts Tour, let him take a breath. Jonas has shown weakness in some altitude climbing too, Portet?.

Blew on Granon in 2022 TdF (2,400metres).
After pacing all Jumbo climbing Galibier and not eating in the descend.

Blew completely on Loze in 2023 TdF - the day after a huge effort in the TT.
The lack of preparation (everybody know the story) shows in the hardest stages.

You will agree that it does not matter if you adapt more or less to the altitude, any defect in shape will be seen sooner here than in other less difficult stages. Marie Blanque adapts perfectly to him and also bit the dust (example).

In addition, he has had great performances on the rest of the great peaks.

I agree with you - especially the bolded. I listed those to show why some had doubts about him at altitude - including myself. Yesterday he pretty much answered those doubts. The counter points both you and Peyroteo94 are valid. I hope Vingegaard can fully recover from his injuries so we can have a fair fight. Vingo is an aerobic monster but he has also benefited by Pog's foolish riding and misfortune.

 

[Froome]

I agree with you - especially the bolded. I listed those to show why some had doubts about him at altitude - including myself. Yesterday he pretty much answered those doubts. The counter points both you and Peyroteo94 are valid. I hope Vingegaard can fully recover from his injuries so we can have a fair fight. Vingo is an aerobic monster but he has also benefited by Pog's foolish riding and misfortune.

Depends also on the stepness of the climb in altitude. He looked very well on Galibier 2022, Tourmalet, Foscagno because they are not climbs very steep.

Granon, La loze( 2020 also), mottolino, he suffered way more.

 

[Extinction]

Depends also on the stepness of the climb in altitude. He looked very well on Galibier 2022, Tourmalet, Foscagno because they are not climbs very steep.

Granon, La loze( 2020 also), mottolino, he suffered way more.

On Mottolino he just cranked out the last watts, having destroyed all the rest. I wouldn't classify that as major suffering.