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Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

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He is doing the first real altitude training this year in these 3 weeks (in April he wasn't sleeping at altitude). Can he get another gear, specially because he will be 1 kilo lighter or will he fade due to fatigue and not being able to reach top shape? I think he has more room than most gc riders who race Dauphiné because they will only train for 10 days when Pogi is doing a 3 weeks training camp so he has more time to build and improve his shape. On the other hands, it is hard to believe guys like Roglic will improve a lot in 2 weeks.
 
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He is doing the first real altitude training this year in these 3 weeks (in April he wasn't sleeping at altitude). Can he get another gear, specially because he will be 1 kilo lighter or will he fade due to fatigue and not being able to reach top shape? I think he has more room than most gc riders who race Dauphiné because they will only train for 10 days when Pogi is doing a 3 weeks training camp so he has more time to build and improve his shape. On the other hands, it is hard to believe guys like Roglic will improve a lot in 2 weeks.

UAE may indeed think that he has another level in him. It's possible that he will be even stronger in the first part of the Tour, reach the crest and start going down later in the race (maybe also because of fatigue). Time will tell, I'm curious myself.
 
He is doing the first real altitude training this year in these 3 weeks (in April he wasn't sleeping at altitude). Can he get another gear, specially because he will be 1 kilo lighter or will he fade due to fatigue and not being able to reach top shape? I think he has more room than most gc riders who race Dauphiné because they will only train for 10 days when Pogi is doing a 3 weeks training camp so he has more time to build and improve his shape. On the other hands, it is hard to believe guys like Roglic will improve a lot in 2 weeks.
Well the first 3 week training camp (Giro) went great so no reason not to think the 2nd 3 week training camp at altitude will do anything other than get him n the condition to do serious damage in the early stages of the Tour.
 
Yes but there were possible explanations for that. As has been explained ad nauseam, yet papered over, Pogacar rode stupid on Granon which effectively lost him that Tour and last year, yes the wrist interrupted his prep which is the only valid reason why he collapsed on Loze the day after he went deep in the Combloux TT.

Already this season I think Pogacar is giving some strong clues what he is capable of with uninterrupted preparation. As others have said, putting the two TdFs defeats aside, he has shown progression since 2020 - as we would expect for such a young rider.

I agree he needs to beat Vingegaard at the Tour but its way too early to suggest Pog is the GOAT anyway.
This is a lot of handwaving. Again, I think Pogacar is amazing and maybe he will win the next 5 Tours and this will all be moot, but these are the facts as they stand:
  • 2020:
    • Young and likely pre-peak
    • Dropped by MAL and Roglic on Loze
    • Behind Roglic going into the final contested stage and needed a Roglic collapse on the ITT to win
  • 2021:
    • Benefitted from Roglic crashing out and Vingegaard crashing on a key mountain stage
    • Dropped by Vingegaard on Ventoux
  • 2022:
    • Lost one net second on the ITTs (-:08 on one and +:09 on the other)
    • Dropped not just on Granon but also on Huatacam
    • Never got even a single bike length in front of Vingegaard despite incessant attacks
  • 2023:
    • Best numbers ever on some stages, IIRC
    • Did manage to drop Vingegaard on multiple occasions
    • Ultimately crushed on the ITT despite performing as well as in the big 2020 ITT relative to the rest of the field
    • Totally collapsed on Loze but still managed a stage win on a mountain finish later in the race
Reading through this, it seems to me that a tremendous amount of hand-waving is required to come to the conclusion that Vingegaard hasn't proven himself to be the superior Tour rider head-to-head to date. That could change, but I don't think any amount of argument can "explain" away Vingegaard's big victories.

Trust me, as a Roglic fan (and then Pogi fan), I'd love to come up with something that makes them look better than Vingegaard.
 
But he did have to go up against the strongest team with his own depleted and got worked over by Roglic to set up Vingegaard’s big breakout.
I think Vingegaard's "big breakout", however, was gonna happen, whether Roglic set him up or not. Pog probably would have lost 2 minutes anyway, while his poor tactics cost him more than three. Either way, Jonas was simply too strong.
 
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This is a lot of handwaving. Again, I think Pogacar is amazing and maybe he will win the next 5 Tours and this will all be moot, but these are the facts as they stand:
  • 2020:
    • Young and likely pre-peak
    • Dropped by MAL and Roglic on Loze
    • Behind Roglic going into the final contested stage and needed a Roglic collapse on the ITT to win
  • 2021:
    • Benefitted from Roglic crashing out and Vingegaard crashing on a key mountain stage
    • Dropped by Vingegaard on Ventoux
  • 2022:
    • Lost one net second on the ITTs (-:08 on one and +:09 on the other)
    • Dropped not just on Granon but also on Huatacam
    • Never got even a single bike length in front of Vingegaard despite incessant attacks
  • 2023:
    • Best numbers ever on some stages, IIRC
    • Did manage to drop Vingegaard on multiple occasions
    • Ultimately crushed on the ITT despite performing as well as in the big 2020 ITT relative to the rest of the field
    • Totally collapsed on Loze but still managed a stage win on a mountain finish later in the race
Reading through this, it seems to me that a tremendous amount of hand-waving is required to come to the conclusion that Vingegaard hasn't proven himself to be the superior Tour rider head-to-head to date. That could change, but I don't think any amount of argument can "explain" away Vingegaard's big victories.

Trust me, as a Roglic fan (and then Pogi fan), I'd love to come up with something that makes them look better than Vingegaard.
I don't understand the doubts about Vingegaard being the best GT rider in the peloton. He can push better numbers than Pogacar in grand tours, he can recover better, and do better Time trials, especially in the third week. It's just a question of comparing the best perfomances ever of each one of them in Grand Tours, and the conclusion is easy.

It's like having questions about who is the best one day racer between Vingegaard and Pogacar. Obviously is Pogacar, since is more complete in the sense of fighting in all the type of classics, one week races and Grand Tours.
 
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I don't understand the doubts about Vingegaard being the best GT rider in the peloton. He can push better numbers than Pogacar in grand tours, he can recover better, and do better Time trials, especially in the third week. It's just a question of comparing the best perfomances ever of each one of them in Grand Tours, and the conclusion is easy.

It's like having questions about who is the best one day racer between Vingegaard and Pogacar. Obviously is Pogacar, since is more complete in the sense of fighting in all the type of classics, one week races and Grand Tours.
The one slight reservation I have about unequivocally declaring Vingegaard a superior GT rider, results aside, is that Pogacar has peaked for the early season monuments like MSR, RVV and LBL, so perhaps with a more measured approach to the Tour he would be able to match Vingegaard. We may never know, tho.
 
The one slight reservation I have about unequivocally declaring Vingegaard a superior GT rider, results aside, is that Pogacar has peaked for the early season monuments like MSR, RVV and LBL, so perhaps with a more measured approach to the Tour he would be able to match Vingegaard. We may never know, tho.
Those classics are 3/4 months before the Tour. There's a lot of time to rest and peak in July.

Besides that, he doesn't race that much.
 
The one slight reservation I have about unequivocally declaring Vingegaard a superior GT rider, results aside, is that Pogacar has peaked for the early season monuments like MSR, RVV and LBL, so perhaps with a more measured approach to the Tour he would be able to match Vingegaard. We may never know, tho.
Good point! One of the reasons why Pogi is so appreciated and therefore loved is because he is audacious and has the talent to back it up. On the other hand, he can dare more than a big deisel such as Vingegaard, because he is more explosive. Yet this very characteristic may diminish his returns over the long haul in July (as explosivity inevitably has long duration costs), where, by contrast, Vingegaard excels.
 
I don't understand the doubts about Vingegaard being the best GT rider in the peloton. He can push better numbers than Pogacar in grand tours, he can recover better, and do better Time trials, especially in the third week. It's just a question of comparing the best perfomances ever of each one of them in Grand Tours, and the conclusion is easy.

It's like having questions about who is the best one day racer between Vingegaard and Pogacar. Obviously is Pogacar, since is more complete in the sense of fighting in all the type of classics, one week races and Grand Tours.
I dont have doubts, Bur pOgacar eecover very well, and I think can time trial better...but after the mountains, in a hilly TT, os better Vinbgeggard, or at least there is doubts. LAsta year clearly better....But as well crearly Better than WVA, is he a better trialist? NO.

Bur he is beter ina real hard mountains tage, especially if came after several mountain stages and it has long climbs...maybe just on that, but that can be very importnt to win a Grand Tour.

Globaly, Pogacar is a better cyclist, buy no so clearly, whay Vingegaard is doing is stage race is as well amazing.
 
I don't understand the doubts about Vingegaard being the best GT rider in the peloton. He can push better numbers than Pogacar in grand tours, he can recover better, and do better Time trials, especially in the third week. It's just a question of comparing the best perfomances ever of each one of them in Grand Tours, and the conclusion is easy.

It's like having questions about who is the best one day racer between Vingegaard and Pogacar. Obviously is Pogacar, since is more complete in the sense of fighting in all the type of classics, one week races and Grand Tours.
Vingegaard in July has been impeccable for two years, but Pogacar in version 2024 might get the upper hand. He is leaner and meaner. So I won't put it past him to Goatdom moving forward. But that depends on Vingegaard, who this round may not be up for the challenge sadly. Everything needs further evaluation in the next years.
 
Vingegaard in July has been impeccable for two years, but Pogacar in version 2024 might get the upper hand. He is leaner and meaner. So I won't put it past him to Goatdom moving forward. But that depends on Vingegaard, who this round may not be up for the challenge sadly. Everything needs further evaluation in the next years.
Yeah we are gonna see the new Pogi this year
 
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