Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Peyroteo94]

Some people seem to forget Pogacar prepared GT's since November for the first time. I knew he would be better in long efforts at altitude (and under 2000m too) because he has been doing this specific training all year and not just after classics. And now we know the answer, he is godly good (probably best climber ever) when his focus is only in climbing and time trialling. Plateau de Beille wasn't a outlier performance and this is the scariest part, if we analyse his performance in Adet and specially in Isola, he completely destroyed the field by doing insane w/kg performances. I never saw this discrepancy in level between a rider and the rest. I already said this one time, thank god we have other incredible GT rider (top3 of all times) in Vingegaard, if not Pogacar would dominate and destroy every GT he would be in.

 

[velaso montador]

Some people seem to forget Pogacar prepared GT's since November for the first time. I knew he would be better in long efforts at altitude (and under 2000m too) because he has been doing this specific training all year and not just after classics. And now we know the anwser, he is godly good (probably best climber ever) when his focus is only in climbing and time trialling. Plateau de Beille wasn't a outlier performance and this is the scariest part, if we analyse his performance in Adet and specially in Isola, he completely destroyed the field by doing insane w/kg performances. I never saw this discrepancy in level between a rider and the rest. I already said this one time, thank god we have other incredible GT rider (top3 of all times) in Vingegaard, if not Pogacar would dominate and destroy every GT he would be in.

All this is true, and the most intriguing part is the climbing and the scariest part as you say about it is we analyze it its no one off its legit a whole new level and the long climbing is so much better than everyone else with crazy numbers.

Oh and I get that your wanne polite and thats correct and while that is true what you say it is, but this was a destruction in every possible terms you could ask for while everyone else being at their best and he did it while doing the Giro-Tour. 6 stage wins in both Giro and Tour and in the mountains making meat out of everyone while their all at their best level ever.
Thats a display of power hardly seen before and a destruction theres no other way of putting it.

 

[velaso montador]

Some people seem to forget Pogacar prepared GT's since November for the first time. I knew he would be better in long efforts at altitude (and under 2000m too) because he has been doing this specific training all year and not just after classics. And now we know the anwser, he is godly good (probably best climber ever) when his focus is only in climbing and time trialling. Plateau de Beille wasn't a outlier performance and this is the scariest part, if we analyse his performance in Adet and specially in Isola, he completely destroyed the field by doing insane w/kg performances. I never saw this discrepancy in level between a rider and the rest. I already said this one time, thank god we have other incredible GT rider (top3 of all times) in Vingegaard, if not Pogacar would dominate and destroy every GT he would be in.

You should check this if you havent.

Power Analysis: Pogačar's Power Numbers Are the Highest We've Ever Seen in Professional Cycling

In this column, we dive into the power numbers of Tadej Pogačar, Jonas Vingegaard, and more at the Tour de France.

velo.outsideonline.com

 

[Peyroteo94]

All this is true, and the most intriguing part is the climbing and the scariest part as you say about it is we analyze it its no one off its legit a whole new level and the long climbing is so much better than everyone else with crazy numbers.

Oh and I get that your wanne polite and thats correct and while that is true what you say it is, but this was a destruction in every possible terms you could ask for while everyone else being at their best and he did it while doing the Giro-Tour. 6 stage wins in both Giro and Tour and in the mountains making meat out of everyone while their all at their best level ever.
Thats a display of power hardly seen before and a destruction theres no other way of putting it.

No mate. I just don't embrace this necessity to downgrade a rider (in this case Vingegaard) to exalt other rider (in this case Pogacar). I'm not saying you do that but there are people who do. For me Pogacar is this big because he has a rider like Vingegaard to push his limits. His level is increasing significantly year after year and Vingegaard is the main reason for that, I have zero doubt about that. How can I downgrade a superb rider like Vingegaard when despite being a little bit boring and a little bit robotic off the bike (IMHO), he is an agressive and attacking rider with a mental toughness beyond insane and give us incredible fights against Pogacar. Without Vingegaard, Pogacar would be a record holder already in the Tour with 5 wins alongside Hinault, Anquetil, Indurain and Merckx. This is crazy! He is just 25 years old and could be a 5 time Tour's champion if it wasn't for Vingegaard.
I want to say a last thing, I don't like when some people say Pogacar is so much better than Vingegaard at GT's (or vice versa) because facts tell us this isn't true. Someone posted something that said Pogacar was 34 seconds (if we took that time Vingegaard was celebrating in champs elysées in 2022) faster than Vingegaard if we combined all GT's they faced each other. I will enjoy this time because they won't be here forever. Yesterday, I was cheering for Federer against Nadal, Nole, Murray and now they are all retired or close to retirement. I can say the same about Messi and Ronaldo. Just enjoy them because after all, more than any rider (and I am a Pogi's fanboy, everyone knows that) I love cycling and cycling is bigger with this rivalry.

 

[velaso montador]

No mate. I just don't embrace this necessity to downgrade a rider (in this case Vingegaard) to exalt other rider (in this case Pogacar). I'm not saying you do that but there are people who do. For me Pogacar is this big because he has a rider like Vingegaard to push his limits. His level is increasing significantly year after year and Vingegaard is the main reason for that, I have zero doubt about that. How can I downgrade a superb rider like Vingegaard when despite being a little bit boring and a little bit robotic off the bike (IMHO), he is an agressive and attacking rider with a mental toughness beyond insane and give us incredible fights against Pogacar. Without Vingegaard, Pogacar would be a record holder already in the Tour with 5 wins alongside Hinault, Anquetil, Indurain and Merckx. This is crazy! He is just 25 years old and could be a 5 time Tour's champion if it wasn't for Vingegaard.
I want to say a last thing, I don't like when some people say Pogacar is so much better than Vingegaard at GT's (or vice versa) because facts tell us this isn't true. Someone posted something that said Pogacar was 34 seconds (if we took that time Vingegaard was celebrating in champs elysées in 2022) faster than Vingegaard if we combined all GT's they faced each other. I will enjoy this time because they won't be here forever. Yesterday, I was cheering for Federer against Nadal, Nole, Murray and now they are all retired or close to retirement. I can say the same about Messi and Ronaldo. Just enjoy them because after all, more than any rider (and I am a Pogi's fanboy, everyone knows that) I love cycling and cycling is bigger with this rivalry.

Thats your opinion i think its somewhat partly politcal correct than anything else.
I agree however on Pogacar wouldnt be so good as he is without Vingegaard up untill now agreed and thats good indeed but I think thats about to change and that VIngegaard is part of that and deserves nothing but respect I fully agree on so bascially we agree on most of this, Also that Vingegaard in himself is historically good ive never disagreed on never.
But its still a difference from that to Pogacar which clearly is evident that is all, nothing to do for me that Vingegaard is not good cause he is extremely good. But lets leave it there otherwise can take it into another thread hehe

But that it was a destruction this Tour while everyone did their best numbers ever and while Pogacar did the Giro-Tour double is hardly extreme to say when we saw what fashion he won in imo. That beeing said we agree on most of this still so all good mate.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Thats your opinion mate i think its somewhat more politcal correct than anything else.
I agree however on Pogacar wouldnt be so good as he is without Vingegaard up untill now agreed and thats good indeed but I think thats about to change and that VIngegaard is part of that and deserves nothing but respect I fully agree on so bascially we agree on most of this, Also that Vingegaard in himself is hisotrically good ive never disagreed on. But its still a difference from that to Pogacar which clearly is evident that is all, nothing to do for me that Vingegaard is not good cause he is extremely good. But lets leave it there otherwise can take it into another thread hehe

But that it was a destruction this Tour while everyone did their best numbers ever and while Pogacar did the Giro-Tour double is hardly extreme to say when we saw what fashion he won in imo. That beeing said we agree on most of this still so all good mate.

Of course it is my opinion but I am everything but polite. For example I don't understand all this hype around Roglic and how he could beat Pogacar and Vingegaard if it weren't his injuries. For me this is BS and I'm the first one to say Roglic has no business in a GT against Pogi/Vingo and I say this since 2022. I can say the same about Remco, I am a huge fan of him but I am almost sure he will never be close to Vingo/Pogi in GT's but time will tell.

 

[velaso montador]

Of course it is my opinion but I am everything but polite. For example I don't understand all this hype around Roglic and how he could beat Pogacar and Vingegaard if it weren't his injuries. For me this is BS and I'm the first one to say Roglic has no business in a GT against Pogi/Vingo and I say this since 2022. I can say the same about Remco, I am a huge fan of him but I am almost sure he will never be close to Vingo/Pogi in GT's but time will tell.

Indeed mate but it will always be emotion involved in the thinking process in these things for someone often at least. First rule in investment banking the second you let your emotions dictate your opinion to some degree you walk away - from the investment thesis.

But yes true and I agree of course (not about the Evenpoel part, before yes not now. I believe he is closer to Vingegaard than Vingegaard is Pog. People evolve and Evenpoel sure is doing that)

 

[dazaau]

Tadej Pogacar says decision not to select girlfriend Urska Zigart helped sway Olympic no-show

The Tour de France champion Tadej Pogacar says the Slovenian federationâs decision not to select his girlfriend Urska Zigart for the Olympics was one of the reasons behind his 11th-hour decision to withdraw from the Paris Games.

www.theguardian.com

Speaking before that race, the 25-year-old said of Zigart’s non-selection: “It’s not the main reason, but for sure it didn’t help. I think she deserves her spot. She’s the double national champion in road race and time trial.”

 

[CyclistAbi]

I feel that Pogi is underestimating the importance of becoming an Olympic gold medallist. If you have a shot at that you always should take it. You instantly become an immortal regardless of all the talk on how it supposedly doesn't mean all that much in cycling world.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Of course it is my opinion but I am everything but polite. For example I don't understand all this hype around Roglic and how he could beat Pogacar and Vingegaard if it weren't his injuries. For me this is BS and I'm the first one to say Roglic has no business in a GT against Pogi/Vingo and I say this since 2022. I can say the same about Remco, I am a huge fan of him but I am almost sure he will never be close to Vingo/Pogi in GT's but time will tell.

One thing i can agree is everybody can have their opinion and yes, people in general don't understand really all that much. Being polite or to not be polite. Here i feel that you need to be able to judge and adjust accordingly, as such things are reciprocal.

As for the remark about Rogla. Get real.

 

[Gargamel35]

Of course it is my opinion but I am everything but polite. For example I don't understand all this hype around Roglic and how he could beat Pogacar and Vingegaard if it weren't his injuries. For me this is BS and I'm the first one to say Roglic has no business in a GT against Pogi/Vingo and I say this since 2022. I can say the same about Remco, I am a huge fan of him but I am almost sure he will never be close to Vingo/Pogi in GT's but time will tell.

I understand opinion about Roglič, he didn't show the level that is needed to go head to head against healthy and prepared Pog/Vinge and age is a problem. Maybe he has one last surprise up his sleeve.

But Remco? He's 24 years old so the youngest of them all. I think he's a big threat to Pog/Vinge in years to come if he decides to fully commit to GT racing.

 

[velaso montador]

I understand opinion about Roglič, he didn't show the level that is needed to go head to head against healthy and prepared Pog/Vinge and age is a problem. Maybe he has one last surprise up his sleeve.

But Remco? He's 24 years old so the youngest of them all. I think he's a big threat to Pog/Vinge in years to come if he decides to fully commit to GT racing.

I agree also think Remco is closer to Vingegaard than Vingegaard is Pog (granted indeed its a gap now though from Vinge to Evenpoel)
But also that Evenpoel will just get better indeed. People evolve. 22 as measurement for Evenpoel is not it anymore, people evolve and he sure will.

 

[AmRacer]

I agree also think Remco is closer to Vingegaard than Vingegaard is Pog (granted indeed its a gap now though from Vinge to Evenpoel)
But also that Evenpoel will just get better indeed. People evolve. 22 as measurement for Evenpoel is not it anymore, people evolve and he sure will.

A healthy Vinge is closer to Pog than what he showed during the Tour.

 

[velaso montador]

A healthy Vinge is closer to Pog than what he showed during the Tour.

He was healthy but granted indeed regarding the prep maybe a little bit week 3 indeed. Still think Evenpoel will be closer to Vingegaard next year than Vingegaard will will be Pogacar but not sure lets see.

Pogacar is simply climbing on a different top level as it is now. I just find it reasonble to believe Evenpoel will get better too mostly that part I agreed on.

 

[Gargamel35]

I agree also think Remco is closer to Vingegaard than Vingegaard is Pog (granted indeed its a gap now though from Vinge to Evenpoel)
But also that Evenpoel will just get better indeed. People evolve. 22 as measurement for Evenpoel is not it anymore, people evolve and he sure will.

I also think healthy Vinge with 100% preparation is very close if not on par with Pog (in a 3 week GT race). I don't know when we will see both of them in a GT 100% again (probably next year Tour but who knows what happens until then). Remco can still evolve. His climbing was probably the best in his career in 2024 TdF. The other two cannot be even better every year, they will fade a bit.

 

[velaso montador]

I also think healthy Vinge with 100% preparation is very close if not on par with Pog (in a 3 week GT race). I don't know when we will see both of them in a GT 100% again (probably next year Tour but who knows what happens until then). Remco can still evolve. His climbing was probably the best in his career in 2024 TdF. The other two cannot be even better every year, they will fade a bit.

but if you look at it vingegaard best its still closer to Evenpoel best climbing now. And I agree and very much find it resaonable to believe Evenpoel will only get better from here on.

Lets say for entertainment purposes only if not anything else Vingegaard can too its not certain at all (its though reasonable to believe he would hold stage 15 performances level more throughout week 3 with better prep fully agree there) but its not a guarantee he can raise the level a lot more. Lets see If Vingegaard will be closer to Evenpoel than he will Pogacar next years only time will tell there.

Pogacar climbing 24 is just on a completely different level though on every mountain sheer dominance, he can fade from that level indeed no guarantee but age wice its not likely but who knows.

 

[Salvarani]

I feel that Pogi is underestimating the importance of becoming an Olympic gold medallist. If you have a shot at that you always should take it. You instantly become an immortal regardless of all the talk on how it supposedly doesn't mean all that much in cycling world.

But he is already immortal by all the wins he has already. This wouldnt move the needle much in that regard. He is the only Slovenian that has won the TdF. Winning that has way bigger reach, than the Olympics for a cyclist. There are millions of people who only watches the TdF when it comes to cycling. He already has his name in history by what he has already done. For many other sports the Olympics is one of the very few ways to get there.

It would only be a nice stat and a great thing to win, but it doesnt deny him of any status or legacy. For a lot of sports the Olympics is the main event, it isnt for cycling and many other sports as well.

For a cyclist of Pogacars status... winning Worlds, at least once, would be much more important.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Salvarani

Olympics don't need any real defending, it's rather clear. Either you are an Olympic gold medallist, or you are not. Who cares if sports like Boxing did everything in their power, to undermine Olympics. Or if cycling is trying to portray a different narrative, on how important cycling, outside Olympics, really is.

In my opinion Pogi will regret it, not participating, through the following decades. I guess still time to change his mind. IMHO he should go and do his best.

 

[Berniece]

In my opinion Pogi will regret it, not participating, through the following decades. I guess still time to change his mind. IMHO he should go and do his best.

Not to mention he would achieve something that Eddy Merckx never achieved. Win a medal in the Olympics

 

[Offline]

Not to mention he would achieve something that Eddy Merckx never achieved. Win a medal in the Olympics

Pogacar have a bronze medal from OL in Tokyo

 

[Salvarani]

@Salvarani

Olympics don't need any real defending, it's rather clear. Either you are an Olympic gold medallist, or you are not. Who cares if sports like Boxing did everything in their power, to undermine Olympics. Or if cycling is trying to portray a different narrative, on how important cycling, outside Olympics, really is.

In my opinion Pogi will regret it, not participating, through the following decades. I guess still time to change his mind. IMHO he should go and do his best.

He has already participated and won a medal.

I dont think he will regret THIS participation and he will likely participate again in the future.

I think this is just making a big deal out of nothing.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

He was healthy but granted indeed regarding the prep maybe a little bit week 3 indeed. Still think Evenpoel will be closer to Vingegaard next year than Vingegaard will will be Pogacar but not sure lets see.

Pogacar is simply climbing on a different top level as it is now. I just find it reasonble to believe Evenpoel will get better too mostly that part I agreed on.

idk. Vingegaard was on his highest level for 2 weeks. Then his lack of base crept up, kinda expected

However, I had a feeling in the spring already Vingegaard had made another jump, because he was winning more, and more easily than ever before in the spring, compared to previous years. I think he'd have reached an even higher ceiling this years Tour if he didn't crash. And I don't think that's easy to close for Remco at all.

Could he have been at Pogi's level? we'll never know.

 

[scribers]

Not to mention he would achieve something that Eddy Merckx never achieved. Win a medal in the Olympics

I’m coming around on this pogi = goat talk

 

[Peyroteo94]

idk. Vingegaard was on his highest level for 2 weeks. Then his lack of base crept up, kinda expected

However, I had a feeling in the spring already Vingegaard had made another jump, because he was winning more, and more easily than ever before in the spring, compared to previous years. I think he'd have reached an even higher ceiling this years Tour if he didn't crash. And I don't think that's easy to close for Remco at all.

Could he have been at Pogi's level? we'll never know.

For me, Vingo would be at Pogi's level if he didn't crash in April.

 

[Berniece]

Pogacar have a bronze medal from OL in Tokyo

Lol, completely forgot that. Which means only gold counts I guess