Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Rackham]

With Pogacar going to the Vuleta, we'll find out once & for all whether the heat is something that bothers him. No hiding in Spain in August, it'll be brutal.

In fact in 2019 the Vuelta started 10 days later than it will this year (August 24th back then, August 14th this year), so this Tour of Spain will probably be the hottest GT he'll ever have raced in.

As for "who" is favorite, considering Primoz Roglic himself sort of owns the race & Spain in general (with Basque Country also) + he's the only one of the 3 favorites who won't have a full GT in his legs this season, I'd say it'll be too close to call between the two Slovenians. The presence of Bernal will add some extra excitement as well.

 

[Leinster]

I'm fairly sure a leader at this stage in the race has cracked and lost 5 minutes only once like that in the third week.

Simon Yates lost 40 minutes that day IIRC.

Pogacar better get attacking

We’ll there has to be some sort of middle ground between a Yates on one end, and a Froome/Bernal, sit on a domestique’s wheel and lose less than a minute in the last week on the other.

Pogacar has the advantage of being a proven 3-week rider, which Yates wasn’t at the time of his Giro collapse.

 

[Red Rick]

We’ll there has to be some sort of middle ground between a Yates on one end, and a Froome/Bernal, sit on a domestique’s wheel and lose less than a minute in the last week on the other.

Pogacar has the advantage of being a proven 3-week rider, which Yates wasn’t at the time of his Giro collapse.

Generally just fading in the third week doesn't drop you from being dominant first to dropping 5 minutes later. It's just not really a thing anymore. There's enough examples where a rider dropped a minute or two, same for lesser contender even. Contador cracked on Finestre unexpectedly and he lost 2 minutes.

You might say Alaphilippe but are we really gonna compare Pogacar to Alaphilippe as GC riders?

I think it all adds up, but it was more down to how he came in to the Giro than what he did there.

Pogacar came into this Tour hot as well. I think it's more likely down to the type of rider, and the 25 min W/kg specialist is probably a bit more likely to bonk than a Pogacar who actually seems to love the *** weather. But mostly it's just making up narratives based on imagination to tell ourselves riders should attack or should be weakening. Especially attacking too much early and taking the jersey too early just grinds my gears.

 

[Bolder]

We’ll there has to be some sort of middle ground between a Yates on one end, and a Froome/Bernal, sit on a domestique’s wheel and lose less than a minute in the last week on the other.

Pogacar has the advantage of being a proven 3-week rider, which Yates wasn’t at the time of his Giro collapse.

Yates was closer to O'Connor than Pogacar toward the end of the 2018 Giro. The air of inevitability was closer to "fail" than "win."

I had forgotten that Lopez was 5" off Froome in GC in 3rd. That's a big gap.

I wouldn't be terribly surprised if Pogacar lost a minute or two here and there in the Pyrenees, but I'd be shocked if he completely cracked.

 

[memyselfandI]

As for "who" is favorite, considering Primoz Roglic himself sort of owns the race & Spain in general (with Basque Country also) + he's the only one of the 3 favorites who won't have a full GT in his legs this season, I'd say it'll be too close to call between the two Slovenians. The presence of Bernal will add some extra excitement as well.

One important for Pogi is maybe to get full second GT in his legs and with that start next season as a new higher level gc contender. After Tour-Vuelta double he's real killer for Giro if early season is not too demanding.

 

[BigCoward]

Fignon did back to back grand tours when he was young and dominant. Took him years to get back to his best.

 

[Valv.Piti]

15 years ago already. Sad.

But remember when the dominating narrative about Yates was that he was too aggressive/took pink too early/wasted too much energy?

Yes, that really, really irritated me as well. Those are the narratives that, when believed, are destroying cycling. Journalists and 'experts' are pushing that narrative, but what they probably dont know is that they're effectively pushing for an unwatchable spectacle. If youre not supposed to use your good form and the specific rider traits where you have a clear advantage over your opposition, whats the god damn point? Sit back and wait to lose? I just dont get it.

And thank god Pogacar used his extremely good form on stage 8 where he also had a clear advantage in terms of the weather to build a huge lead. It closed energy, sure, but so did it for the rest of his opponents. Same on Tignes. What that means is he can approach the rest of the race completely different with a more conservative approach if he needs to. Good for him.

But comparing Yates with Pogacar? Come on, Yates isnt half the GT rider that Pogacar is. Yates was bound to lose that huge amount of time no matter what in that Giro regardless of his small attacks or not.

 

[Red Rick]

Yes, that really, really irritated me as well. Those are the narratives that, when believed, are destroying cycling. Journalists and 'experts' are pushing that narrative, but what they probably dont know is that they're effectively pushing for an unwatchable spectacle. If youre not supposed to use your good form and the specific rider traits where you have a clear advantage over your opposition, whats the god damn point? Sit back and wait to lose? I just dont get it.

Kruijswijk is the pundits favorite rider. Peaks for the 5th week.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Kruijswijk is the pundits favorite rider. Peaks for the 5th week.

Hey when that fifth week comes though, boy let met tell you we are in for a show.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

It will be hot tomorrow and even hotter on sunday (extremely hot airmass in the Pyrenees). If Pogacar survives the Pyrenean weekend then he will have a chance to stamp his authority once again in decisive mountain stages (the african airmass should leave the region on Monday and it will get cold in the mountains).

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Pretty incendiary interview from Pogacar’s coach. Says basically that Pogi’s rivals are in terrible form, have “nothing.”

Tour de France: Tadej Pogacar's coach hits back at doubters, says rivals have yet to push him

Dr. Iñigo San Millán says skepticism around Pogačar is unwarranted; rivals simply aren't as strong in 2021 as they were last year.

www.velonews.com

 

[BlueRoads]

Pretty incendiary interview from Pogacar’s coach. Says basically that Pogi’s rivals are in terrible form, have “nothing.”

Tour de France: Tadej Pogacar's coach hits back at doubters, says rivals have yet to push him

Dr. Iñigo San Millán says skepticism around Pogačar is unwarranted; rivals simply aren't as strong in 2021 as they were last year.

www.velonews.com

Who has said he's better than last year? He already was on that level last year, I'd say.

Anyway, pretty dismissive of the other teams and riders.
I mean, sure you try do explain why Pogacar is so much better, but this is a nasty way of doing it. If all the others are so much weaker it must be because they all messed up their preparation? Not only Ineos, Jumbo, but also guys like Stefan Küng and all the others? Aha.

"With us, we did analysis to see if the riders are catabolic [losing muscle], how their training is being stimulated, what their fatigue is, and we are being very, very careful with the nutrition. Nutrition at altitude is a whole different planet compared to at sea level."
And all the other have only amateurs working for them, or what?

Everything else about this to be discussed in the clinic.

 

[Bolder]

Pretty incendiary interview from Pogacar’s coach. Says basically that Pogi’s rivals are in terrible form, have “nothing.”

Tour de France: Tadej Pogacar's coach hits back at doubters, says rivals have yet to push him

Dr. Iñigo San Millán says skepticism around Pogačar is unwarranted; rivals simply aren't as strong in 2021 as they were last year.

www.velonews.com

I actually agree. None of the putative challengers pre-Tour have shown anything. Or they have crashed out. Before the Tour the consensus was that it would be the Slovenians head and shoulders above the field ; Roglic is out so here we are...

 

[Rollthedice]

we are being very, very careful with the nutrition. Nutrition at altitude is a whole different planet compared to at sea level."

Marginal grains.

 

[Lequack]

Somehow I think it's pretty fun to be on the bus with Tadej

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Pretty incendiary interview from Pogacar’s coach. Says basically that Pogi’s rivals are in terrible form, have “nothing.”

Tour de France: Tadej Pogacar's coach hits back at doubters, says rivals have yet to push him

Dr. Iñigo San Millán says skepticism around Pogačar is unwarranted; rivals simply aren't as strong in 2021 as they were last year.

www.velonews.com

At times he sounds disrespectful towards other teams but he's right that the competition is weaker than last year (not just lack of Primoz but slower tempo of others on climbs). It's also true that Tadej probably didn't reach w/kg from Peyresourde and PDBF (at least so far) but his Le Grand Bornand performance was equally impressive. That being said, the weather was an important factor in the Alps - the fact that Tadej seems unfazed compared to others (performance wise) is game-changing and shows his superiority. We will see how things (climbing times) go in the Pyrenees if the weather is better.

 

[BlueRoads]

I actually agree. None of the putative challengers pre-Tour have shown anything. Or they have crashed out. Before the Tour the consensus was that it would be the Slovenians head and shoulders above the field ; Roglic is out so here we are...

Well, we will see how it goes on.
But I don't think him beating Stefan Küng clear-cut in a flat time trial can be explained with "weak competition".
Of course he's now also in a good tactical position.

 

[Netserk]

Well, we will see how it goes on.
But I don't think him beating Stefan Küng clear-cut in a flat time trial can be explained with "weak competition".
Of course he's now also in a good tactical position.

It wasn't dead-flat, it was rolling. Not too different from the first part of the ITT last year where he was the fastest.

 

[Valv.Piti]

So I saw 'SarahtheDane' liking that picture. Is Sarah by any chance RedheadDane's sister??

 

[RedheadDane]

So I saw 'SarahtheDane' liking that picture. Is Sarah by any chance RedheadDane's sister??

I'm pretty sure she's not, considering that I don't have a sister called Sarah.
And neither of my sisters are as obsessed with cycling as I am.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I'm pretty sure she's not, considering that I don't have a sister called Sarah.
And neither of my sisters are as obsessed with cycling as I am.

Somehow Im a bit disappointed... would have been cool...

 

[IndurainsTdF1994]

Somehow I think it's pretty fun to be on the bus with Tadej

High on the smell.

 

[tobydawq]

Somehow Im a bit disappointed... would have been cool...

You think Redhead's real first name is Redhead?

Anyway, what a terrible week for Pogacar. If we use the rest days as week separators, this was the first time ever that he went a whole week in a Grand Tour without winning a stage. The decline has begun.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Pog survives the heat with no losses. Next week will be very cold. He should target a stage on Portet or Luz Ardiden if his team chases down breakaways for once (but can they?).

 

[Rackham]

Pog survives the heat with no losses. Next week will be much colder. He should target a stage on Portet or Luz Ardiden if his team chases down breakaways for once (but can they?).

He wasn't tested once. It's today that you really see just how "alone" Pogacar is at the top of this Tour. He looked effortless & expended zero energy shutting down the micro-attacks around him (even Uran "attacked"!).

The only danger (obviously notwithstanding crashes etc.) is actually the first part of stages & possible echelons, i.e. because his team really isn't that good. But in a straight fight, I think no one stands a chance. And the only thing stopping him from winning more stages is precisely the fact he can't get his team to ride over multiple cols with a high tempo to keep a breakaway within striking distance because they're not strong enough.

So he might have to rely on Ineos to do his groundwork at Luz Ardiden or Portet if he wants to win those.