Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Red Rick]

Given the stature of the man, it seems curious that this thread doesn't get a commensurate number of posts. Is it because he is less possible than say Contador or Froome were in their primes? Even on the eve of the Tour, it's been quite here over the last couple of days.

Popularity doesn't directly relate to accomplsihments, and especially thread size.

There's just no handful of posters talking about every bit of Pog news that comse out. Contadors thread didn't start because of achievement, it started pretty soon after he got banned, and it was originally called "I LOVE ALBERTO". He had a very big pro and anti circlejerk going on.

Who's the most controversial rider now? Evenepoel. And it shows in the thread size.

 

[Extinction]

Popularity doesn't directly relate to accomplsihments, and especially thread size.

There's just no handful of posters talking about every bit of Pog news that comse out. Contadors thread didn't start because of achievement, it started pretty soon after he got banned, and it was originally called "I LOVE ALBERTO". He had a very big pro and anti circlejerk going on.

Who's the most controversial rider now? Evenepoel. And it shows in the thread size.

Yea, but, and I've been following cylcing for a long time, it just seems that given his outstanding accomplishments (and we are practically right up there with a Merckx, a Hinault, a Fignon at this stage of their careers age wise) he WOULD be more popular. Yet judging by this thread that does not seem to be the case. And, as far as I can tell, it's not like he is an unlikable chap. Is it lack carisma? Is it his nationality (but Roglic seems rather popular)? Were he French or Belgian or Dutch or Italian or Spanish or German or British or American or Columbian would it make a difference? Back before Contador's thread started, however, the CNF was still pretty new no? And in any case, Contador was hugely popular till the end of his career, even when he was no longer capapble of winning a GT. It just seems to me that Pogacar isn't talked about as much as his status would otherwise warrant.

 

[CyclistAbi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1540357270982336513

https://twitter.com/x/status/1540605127610040320

 

[RedheadDane]

Yea, but, and I've been following cylcing for a long time, it just seems that given his outstanding accomplishments (and we are practically right up there with a Merckx, a Hinault, a Fignon at this stage of their careers age wise) he WOULD be more popular. Yet judging by this thread that does not seem to be the case. And, as far as I can tell, it's not like he is an unlikable chap. Is it lack carisma? Is it his nationality (but Roglic seems rather popular)? Were he French or Belgian or Dutch or Italian or Spanish or German or British or American or Columbian would it make a difference? Back before Contador's thread started, however, the CF was still pretty new no? And in any case, Contador was hugely popular till the end of his career, even when he was no longer capapble of winning a GT. It just seems to me that Pogacar isn't talked about as much as his status would otherwise warrent.

Guess there's just not much to talk about? He turns up to a race, and 99/100 times he wins.

Contadors thread didn't start because of achievement, it started pretty soon after he got banned, and it was originally called "I LOVE ALBERTO". He had a very big pro and anti circlejerk going on.

Don't forget that that was back in the day when lots of riders had two threads; an Appreciation Thread, and a Depreciation Thread. And then of course people starting appreciating in the depreciation threads, and depreciating in the appreciation threads.

 

[dercuforever]

Yea, but, and I've been following cylcing for a long time, it just seems that given his outstanding accomplishments (and we are practically right up there with a Merckx, a Hinault, a Fignon at this stage of their careers age wise) he WOULD be more popular. Yet judging by this thread that does not seem to be the case. And, as far as I can tell, it's not like he is an unlikable chap. Is it lack carisma? Is it his nationality (but Roglic seems rather popular)? Were he French or Belgian or Dutch or Italian or Spanish or German or British or American or Columbian would it make a difference? Back before Contador's thread started, however, the CF was still pretty new no? And in any case, Contador was hugely popular till the end of his career, even when he was no longer capapble of winning a GT. It just seems to me that Pogacar isn't talked about as much as his status would otherwise warrent.

Problem is there are no controversies. 90% of people think he is OP and will not lose except bad luck. Those who think the opposite aren't enough to create much back and forth talk. (except in Roglic's thread).
While greats, Contador and Nibali had not 1.7 odds of winning a GT prior to it.
Also Tadej is young, and likeable, therefore he has few haters. He was not overhyped either.
Only thing that work against him and could cause controverse is his teams, and that talk is in another part of the forum I guess.

 

[Red Rick]

Yea, but, and I've been following cylcing for a long time, it just seems that given his outstanding accomplishments (and we are practically right up there with a Merckx, a Hinault, a Fignon at this stage of their careers age wise) he WOULD be more popular. Yet judging by this thread that does not seem to be the case. And, as far as I can tell, it's not like he is an unlikable chap. Is it lack carisma? Is it his nationality (but Roglic seems rather popular)? Were he French or Belgian or Dutch or Italian or Spanish or German or British or American or Columbian would it make a difference? Back before Contador's thread started, however, the CF was still pretty new no? And in any case, Contador was hugely popular till the end of his career, even when he was no longer capapble of winning a GT. It just seems to me that Pogacar isn't talked about as much as his status would otherwise warrent.

It's very hard to pinpoint, but I definitely think it plays a part that he's Slovenian and thus not from a traditionally influential cycling nation. And he skyrocketed sort of out of nowhere. He basically entered the mainstream cycling audience in the 2019 Vuelta and a year later he was the top dog of cycling. There's not that much to discuss cause he has no clear, big weaknesses, and there's also no clear rivalry except Roglic and they've functinoally dodged each other for the last 2 years.

I would also say Contador got added popular for crushing the much hated Armstrong, and later in his career when he started losing more often than he won he got more popular for his insane aggression.

But really a lot of popular riders had very small threads and thus it's heavily down to engagement of a small group of people. LIke some seem to wonder why Nibali's thread is bigger than Valverdes or something, but that's also largely down to Bag memes and inflatable shark cult behavior.

Finally I don't think CN gives a great representation of overall fan representation.

 

[Red Rick]

Problem is there are no controversies. 90% of people think he is OP and will not lose except bad luck. Those who think the opposite aren't enough to create much back and forth talk. (except in Roglic's thread).
While greats, Contador and Nibali had not 1.7 odds of winning a GT prior to it.
Also Tadej is young, and likeable, therefore he has few haters. He was not overhyped either.
Only thing that work against him and could cause controverse is his teams, and that talk is in another part of the forum I guess.

I used to never check odds, but I think Contador surely msut have had massively favoring odds at some point in his career. Like the 2011 Giro comes to mind.

 

[Oldermanish]

Yea, but, and I've been following cylcing for a long time, it just seems that given his outstanding accomplishments (and we are practically right up there with a Merckx, a Hinault, a Fignon at this stage of their careers age wise) he WOULD be more popular. Yet judging by this thread that does not seem to be the case. And, as far as I can tell, it's not like he is an unlikable chap. Is it lack carisma? Is it his nationality (but Roglic seems rather popular)? Were he French or Belgian or Dutch or Italian or Spanish or German or British or American or Columbian would it make a difference? Back before Contador's thread started, however, the CF was still pretty new no? And in any case, Contador was hugely popular till the end of his career, even when he was no longer capapble of winning a GT. It just seems to me that Pogacar isn't talked about as much as his status would otherwise warrent.

There's no question he'd attract more press if he was from a bigger population of national fans. His skills warrant more interest in forum terms, at least. He is the most notable and quotable sports person in his country from now til the end of July!

 

[Extinction]

Problem is there are no controversies. 90% of people think he is OP and will not lose except bad luck. Those who think the opposite aren't enough to create much back and forth talk. (except in Roglic's thread).
While greats, Contador and Nibali had not 1.7 odds of winning a GT prior to it.
Also Tadej is young, and likeable, therefore he has few haters. He was not overhyped either.
Only thing that work against him and could cause controverse is his teams, and that talk is in another part of the forum I guess.

I agree with all of this, however, I still find it odd even if what you say makes sense.

 

[Extinction]

There's no question he'd attract more press if he was from a bigger population of national fans. His skills warrant more interest in forum terms, at least. He is the most notable and quotable sports person in his country from now til the end of July!

I would say he is giant of sport, he is the Usain Bolt of cycling, or if not quickly rising to that status.

 

[Extinction]

Guess there's just not much to talk about? He turns up to a race, and 99/100 times he wins.

Right and for that very reason I would have expected that he would be the most talked about around here, but he isn't.

 

[RedheadDane]

Right and for that very reason I would have expected that he would be the most talked about around here, but he isn't.

Well, "Look, Tadej won again." just might not inspire that much discussion. It would be like discussing the religion of the Pope.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Right and for that very reason I would have expected that he would be the most talked about around here, but he isn't.

Tadej is a likeable guy and he's a winner. But his story is too perfect: he started winning very early, no controvercies, no setbacks, no struggles like mere mortals have. Just winning races with a smile on his face. It could change with time and I also think he'll get more support then. I think a lot of people generally like him but he still lacks a big devoted fan base outside Slovenia.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Contador changed cycling. He is the Steph Curry of cycling. He brought agression, panache and excitement to bike racing after Armstrong's retirement. There is something unique in Contador. He is truly the Goat, not because of his 9 (or 7, or 8. I count 8) Gt's but because he inspired so many young riders to be fearless and enjoyable. Truly remarkable and what a fairytale he lived in his last race.

 

[acm]

Given the stature of the man, it seems curious that this thread doesn't get a commensurate number of posts. Is it because he is less popular than say Contador or Froome were in their primes? Even on the eve of the Tour, it's been quite here over the last couple of days.

He's not even the most popular cyclist in Slovenia...

 

[Extinction]

He's not even the most popular cyclist in Slovenia...

So I've heard. That would be Roglic, right? Popularity is like matters of taste, evidently, they are not to be argued over. Still, you'd have thought the first Slovenian to win the Tour during his first participation and at such a tender age would become the most popular. Or perhaps it was because he "stole" it from Roglic in such brutal fashion that his popularity did not increase.

 

[Nick2413]

The country definitely plays a big part. Any rider with his story from the big cycling countries would have at least twice the posts.

 

[gregrowlerson]

My guess is that the popularity of the forum is down significantly on where it was at 5-10 years ago.

Also, there are probably not a high percentage of posters who are Slovenian.

Roglic steals a lot of love away from him too imo.

 

[Gargamel35]

So I've heard. That would be Roglic, right? Popularity is like matters of taste, evidently, they are not to be argued over. Still, you'd have thought the first Slovenian to win the Tour during his first participation and at such a tender age would become the most popular. Or perhaps it was because he "stole" it from Roglic in such brutal fashion that his popularity did not increase.

Slovenia had a lot of very good cyclists. But none came close to Roglič. He was an ex ski jumper (with brutal crash), he was a cyclist amateur, he worked his way into the sport the hard way. He brought incredible success with it and became Slovenian cyclist hero. He also had a lot of setbacks, crashes, etc. He was also polite, not outspoken, humble, like most Slovenians are. He was also racing for a clumsy team with it's share of problems.

When he worked his way into TdF picture and when it became clear he can win it (GC), everyone went crazy about him here.

And then there was Pogačar from a unlikable team with shady history (not to mention from the east). He came out of nowhere. A Terminator that destroys everyone with a smile. Easy. He defeated Roglič in a TdF race in the last day in a brutal fashion. Race that was supposed to be the ultimate triumph of Roglič in cycling.

And now every year Terminator takes even more.

That's how it felt and feels. Pog is so good, so soon, so easy that you have nothing to root for. No story, no exitment. It was like rooting for Schumacher. People that knew nothing about the sport where rooting for him, because it's easy to pick a constant winner (in Ferrari years). But those aren't passonate about it. They don't write on forums and argue about ifs.

Tadej needs Roglič to stop racing and have few problems along the way. He needs great opposition but i just don't see it right now.

 

[Extinction]

Slovenia had a lot of very good cyclists. But none came close to Roglič. He was an ex ski jumper (with brutal crash), he was a cyclist amater, he worked his way into the sport the hard way. He brought incredible success with it and became Slovenian cyclist hero. He also had a lot of setbacks, crashes, etc. He was also polite, not outspoken, humble, like most Slovenians are. He was also racing for a clumsy team with it's share of problems.

When he worked his way into TdF picture and when it became clear he can win it (GC), everyone went crazy about him here.

And then there was Pogačar from a unlikable team with shady history (not to mention from the east). He came out of nowhere. A Terminator that destroys everyone with a smile. Easy. He defeated Roglič in a TdF race in the last day in a brutal fashion. Race that was supposed to be the ultimate triumph of Roglič in cycling.

And now every year Terminator takes even more.

That's how it felt and feels. Pog is so good, so soon, so easy that you have nothing to root for. No story, no exitment. It was like rooting for Schumacher. People that knew nothing about the sport where rooting for him, because it's easy to pick a constant winner. But those aren't passonate about it. They don't write on forums and argue about ifs.

Tadej needs Roglič to stop racing and have few problems along the way. He needs great opposition but i just don't see it right now.

Sorry, which shady team are you refering to?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Given the stature of the man, it seems curious that this thread doesn't get a commensurate number of posts. Is it because he is less popular than say Contador or Froome were in their primes? Even on the eve of the Tour, it's been quiet here over the last couple of days.

I've shared my view on this before. First of all, he didn't dominate juniors or U23. He won L'Avenir with a normal/modest gap over Arensman, who was over a year younger, without even winning a stage. Big talent but nothing really out of the ordinary, especially after Bernal. The most interesting period was between 2019 and the start of the 2020 TDF. This was the moment to wonder and ponder about what he was capable of. He won California vs Higuita, he won Algarve early in the season... nice. Had a very good result in Itzulia, 6th iirc. Very promising, but still, Bernal was winning the TDF right about then, and he was only a year and a few months older. Then 3 stages in the Vuelta and he secured his podium spot in one of the last stages... Ok, how far can this guy go? Hype picked up along 2019.

So unlike other guys, the hype picked up late, because he was never seen as a potential worldbeater until mid 2019. And roughly a year later, he was an actual worldbeater with a WTF exposition on PdBF. He wins when and where he starts and feels like it. He can TT, he can climb, he can do hilly monuments, he can do cobbled monuments. Ok, so we've established al that. What's left to talk about?

Furthermore, he comes from a country where cycling isn't the most important religion. Newspapers aren't watching him like a hawk. He can still pick his nose without having ten cameras in his face. And even if local newspapers publish something, none of us know about it, and there aren't enough crazed/hyped Slovenian fans to bring/translate it here.

We could talk about how many minutes he'll be leading with after the first mountain stage. How much do you think? 5? 8? Interesting discussion.

On social media i've noticed more resentment lately though. He wins a bit too easily, and no amount of babyfaced cuteness can fight the inevitable grudge that people can hold against someone for whom success comes that easily. When another young rider was thought to become a dominator, people didn't need much to pile on the hate. Now it appears he has his own demons to fight, and general perception has started to come round. While Pogacar seems to be subject to the opposite. This is just my personal impression, from social media (especially twitter).

 

[CyclistAbi]

There was more to Schumacher than that. Hamilton won just as much but was never praised like that by public. The same with Rossi. Márquez wins just as much but it's just not the same in regards to pubic. Still it's a bit better compared to Hamilton.

For Tadej i would say he is still too young. And he likely needs to be careful on which fans he attracts in the future. So far he didn't do anything "wrong". And his options are hence still open. Last thing he needs to do is a guess try to "force" the public to like him. Just continue to win everything or more likely a couple of soul crushing defeats and to bounce back after. This should soften him up. If he stays graceful and humble in both win and defeat.

On the other hand if he just wants to win the Tour each year. Such Tour winners tend to be assholes. Hard to overcome that. I guess his mentor and role model Rogla could help him with that.

We'll see.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Sorry, which shady team are you refering to?

I assume the team he rides for? UAE is Lampre. The guy running the show was hospitalized and got in a coma once after experimenting with substances on himself.

 

[Oldermanish]

I've shared my view on this before. First of all, he didn't dominate juniors or U23. He won L'Avenir with a normal/modest gap over Arensman, who was over a year younger, without even winning a stage. Big talent but nothing really out of the ordinary, especially after Bernal. The most interesting period was between 2019 and the start of the 2020 TDF. This was the moment to wonder and ponder about what he was capable of. He won California vs Higuita, he won Algarve early in the season... nice. Had a very good result in Itzulia, 6th iirc. Very promising, but still, Bernal was winning the TDF right about then, and he was only a year and a few months older. Then 3 stages in the Vuelta and he secured his podium spot in one of the last stages... Ok, how far can this guy go? Hype picked up along 2019.

So unlike other guys, the hype picked up late, because he was never seen as a potential worldbeater until mid 2019. And roughly a year later, he was an actual worldbeater with a WTF exposition on PdBF. He wins when and where he starts and feels like it. He can TT, he can climb, he can do hilly monuments, he can do cobbled monuments. Ok, so we've established al that. What's left to talk about?

Furthermore, he comes from a country where cycling isn't the most important religion. Newspapers aren't watching him like a hawk. He can still pick his nose without having ten cameras in his face. And even if local newspapers publish something, none of us know about it, and there aren't enough crazed/hyped Slovenian fans to bring/translate it here.

We could talk about how many minutes he'll be leading with after the first mountain stage. How much do you think? 5? 8? Interesting discussion.

On social media i've noticed more resentment lately though. He wins a bit too easily, and no amount of babyfaced cuteness can fight the inevitable grudge that people can hold against someone for whom success comes that easily. When another young rider was thought to become a dominator, people didn't need much to pile on the hate. Now it appears he has his own demons to fight, and general perception has started to come round. While Pogacar seems to be subject to the opposite. This is just my personal impression, from social media (especially twitter).

And back to the reason it's easy for new and casual fans to find him interesting and others to feel it's too easy. Almost none of those people have a clue as to how much work it takes to be there and those that have a faint idea may assume the rider must show the angry edge of an overworked coalminer. Not everyone hates the depth of pain it takes to race successfully and Tadej appears to be one of them. Just because he smiles and doesn't throw tantrums doesn't mean he misses out on every down moment. He just does not dwell on them apparently. Part killer and part youthful upstart. Hopefully it remains real in a very sc

 

[Gargamel35]

There was more to Schumacher than that. Hamilton won just as much but was never praised like that by public. The same with Rossi. Márquez wins just as much but it's just not the same in regards to pubic. Still it's a bit better compared to Hamilton.

For Tadej i would say he is still too young. And he likely needs to be careful on which fans he attracts in the future. So far he didn't do anything "wrong". And his options are hence still open. Last thing he needs to do is a guess try to "force" the public to like him. Just continue to win everything or more likely a couple of soul crushing defeats and to bounce back after. This should soften him up. If he stays graceful and humble in both win and defeat.

On the other hand if he just wants to win the Tour each year. Such Tour winners tend to be assholes. Hard to overcome that. I guess his mentor and role model Rogla could help him with that.

We'll see.

There is another thing with Schumacher. He left worlds best team (Benneton)¸and went to very bad one at the time (Ferrari). He worked hard with it and brought it up to ultimate winners.
So he had his share of hard time.