Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[jmdirt]

I have done flanders and PR. The difference is immense. You really can't compare the cobbles of Roubaix with the cobbles in Flanders. Flanders cobbles are nothing compared to Wallers, Mons en Pévèle et Carrefour de l'arbre. Pogacar is unbelievable but he can't win PR. Not in a million years. You can't compare with the Tour de France stage either because there are only a few secteurs and they were not the hardest.

Pog absolutely could win PR if that was his focus.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Pog absolutely could win PR if that was his focus.

If that meant him gaining 5+kg, then i agree he could do it.

 

[Oldermanish]

If that meant him gaining 5+kg, then i agree he could do it.

I was thinking the same thing for added power, cobble abuse. If I were him I'd put my entire effort into winning 2 more TdF, if possible. That would benchmark him in a way like few others considering the depth of competition he faces these days. If Remco continues to improve, as he should; he could be a fairly unmovable object to that goal. Primoz is still dangerous but his wear and tear would limit his effectiveness over the years. Jonas-I'm not totally convinced that he is as good as he was this Tour for no other reason than his limited exposure.

Bulking up for a lottery race like PR could compromise preparation and expose him to some serious loss of productive time. Win 2 more and then bulk up; it'd be more useful as a more mature rider as well.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Diversion or not, Paris Roubaix is much harder than the cobbled stages in the Tour. Current format still benefits riders who can fly on 1 or 2 secteurs, which is no problem for Pogacar, but in Roubaix it's pure attrition and those 1 or 2 surges will go nowhere.

The good thing about Roubaix is that it has the largest amount of contenders and heavily favors opportunists unlike any of the other monuments.

Roubaix is a weird race. The favorites sometimes surge ahead but then just end up in no man‘s land if there‘s a strong group up the road as has often been the case in recent years. Roubaix is mostly about surviving the endless barrage of cobbled sectors and isn‘t that predictable. Pogačar would do well on the cobbles but winning the race is a different question imo.

 

[Tinnekeisabella]

I would imagine that Pogacar can be better than in this year's Tour when he puts everything on the Tour and plans his season accordingly. Last year he seemed so dominant that it looked like he can do everything whenever he wants to, but maybe even for him it's necessary to focus a bit more, and maybe it's not even the best idea to start the season that early. Of course you can always just get sick or crash out of the Tour and then the whole season is ruined, but I think if there are other strong rivals you can well beat you otherwise, you are young and have already secured two Tour wins and the team doesn't need your points that much because there other riders who can collect them - than it's worth the gamble.

I dont think focussing only the tour would work for Tadej. He is a rider who likes to race and racing builds his motivation.

I do think his lead up to the tour should change. It is all sweet that he tries to build his image in Slovenia, but Dauphine and Switzerland are far better races to prepare.

 

[Salvarani]

I dont think focussing only the tour would work for Tadej. He is a rider who likes to race and racing builds his motivation.

I do think his lead up to the tour should change. It is all sweet that he tries to build his image in Slovenia, but Dauphine and Switzerland are far better races to prepare.

I think you have to consider the mental aspects as well, not just the physical ones when thinking about preparation.

It can be good to have a race with less pressure and more fun. Have time with his family before going into the madness that is the TdF.

 

[Red Rick]

Didn't expect it first but now he looks like a top 3 favorite for the World. Lombardia honestly should be an easy win at this point. Evenepoel won't start, I doubt Roglic will be back, who can even challenge on Civiglio

 

[Lequack]

MVDP.

 

[Red Rick]

MVDP.

For Il Lombardia?

Van der Poel has never shown any such climbing. Maybe he could close down significantly on the descent, but in my opinion Pogacar climbs Civiglio like a full minute faster.

 

[Nick2413]

MVDP.

Would be fun to see Pog outsprint MVDP at the end of Lombardia after Flanders. I bet he’d win it this time.

 

[KZD]

Didn't expect it first but now he looks like a top 3 favorite for the World. Lombardia honestly should be an easy win at this point. Evenepoel won't start, I doubt Roglic will be back, who can even challenge on Civiglio

Maybe Alaphilippe if he returns to his best shape.

 

[Lequack]

For Il Lombardia?

Van der Poel has never shown any such climbing. Maybe he could close down significantly on the descent, but in my opinion Pogacar climbs Civiglio like a full minute faster.

"Earlier this month, Jumbo-Visma informed BT that Vingegaard will in all probability run the Croatian stage race Cro Race as a prelude to the Tour of Lombardy in October. "

Vingegaard having to come back from his season vacation just to crush Pog, or at least stick to his wheel.

 

[memyselfandI]

"Earlier this month, Jumbo-Visma informed BT that Vingegaard will in all probability run the Croatian stage race Cro Race as a prelude to the Tour of Lombardy in October. "

Vingegaard having to come back from his season vacation just to crush Pog, or at least stick to his wheel.

I imagine that Vingo is more enduro than Pogi and when in GT Pogi accumulates some stress in his body he gets slower and Vingo challenges him more and we tend to think that Vingo is fast. I really don't think that Vingo can challenge Vout or Mathieu in one day races or short flattish stage races, but Pogi can. They're not the same.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

"Earlier this month, Jumbo-Visma informed BT that Vingegaard will in all probability run the Croatian stage race Cro Race as a prelude to the Tour of Lombardy in October. "

Vingegaard having to come back from his season vacation just to crush Pog, or at least stick to his wheel.

You won't see THAT Vinge until the next year's Tour, he's undergoing reset. There's a small chance he beats an in-form Pog in a one-day race anyway.

 

[Bonimenier]

You won't see THAT Vinge until the next year's Tour, he's undergoing reset. There's a small chance he beats an in-form Pog in a one-day race anyway.

It wouldn't even surprise me if he's going to be nowhere next year and it'll take longer for him to find his motivation back.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Didn't expect it first but now he looks like a top 3 favorite for the World. Lombardia honestly should be an easy win at this point. Evenepoel won't start, I doubt Roglic will be back, who can even challenge on Civiglio

To me he looks like the out-and-out favorite for Worlds tbh. I doubt Mathieu and Wout can follow him in the end with this amount of climbing

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Didn't expect it first but now he looks like a top 3 favorite for the World. Lombardia honestly should be an easy win at this point. Evenepoel won't start, I doubt Roglic will be back, who can even challenge on Civiglio

Agreed, top3 WC favourite (alongside WVA and MVP) and #1 favourite for Lombardy,

To me he looks like the out-and-out favorite for Worlds tbh. I doubt Mathieu and Wout can follow him in the end with this amount of climbing

There's less climbing than in Montreal and lower climbing "density" plus WVA's form can still improve (so less lactate on climbs and more explosive at the finish line). MVP, if in a good form, is a top contender here.

 

[hayneplane]

I have done flanders and PR. The difference is immense. You really can't compare the cobbles of Roubaix with the cobbles in Flanders. Flanders cobbles are nothing compared to Wallers, Mons en Pévèle et Carrefour de l'arbre. Pogacar is unbelievable but he can't win PR. Not in a million years. You can't compare with the Tour de France stage either because there are only a few secteurs and they were not the hardest.

You can compare with the Tour stage because he wasn’t just holding the wheel he was blatantly the strongest rider of the day. It’s true that Wout was on teammate duty. The argument that they were not properly hard sectors actually speaks in his favour as that surely should have made it easier for the others to stick in his wheel and not get dropped.

 

[hayneplane]

It wouldn't even surprise me if he's going to be nowhere next year and it'll take longer for him to find his motivation back.

Given they way it has gone since the Tour finished it genuinely wouldn’t shock me if Vingegaard did a Wiggins in never really finding that pure motivation needed to hurt yourself enough to win the biggest prize.

Hope I am wrong as seeing him trying to hold off an all guns blazing Pogacar hell bent on reclaiming his crown would be generational stuff.

 

[Nick2413]

Given they way it has gone since the Tour finished it genuinely wouldn’t shock me if Vingegaard did a Wiggins in never really finding that pure motivation needed to hurt yourself enough to win the biggest prize.

Hope I am wrong as seeing him trying to hold off an all guns blazing Pogacar hell bent on reclaiming his crown would be generational stuff.

Maybe I’ve just never thought of it that way, but it seems as if pure motivation isn’t necessarily as relevant in this sport as others. We all know how hard they have to ride and how brutal it is, there’s no denying that, but it’s rare that I ever feel the reason a rider lost is because they didn’t work hard enough or dig deep enough (aside from tactical games or missing decisive attacks). Which I would say the same about training as well. Or, maybe that killer instinct is really what it will come down to in the coming years.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Agreed, top3 WC favourite (alongside WVA and MVP) and #1 favourite for Lombardy,



There's less climbing than in Montreal and lower climbing "density" plus WVA's form can still improve (so less lactate on climbs and more explosive at the finish line). MVP, if in a good form, is a top contender here.

Of course MVDP is a top favorite, I don't doubt that. Im just saying Pog is my favorite based on what I have seen so far, and I think he will have enough to drop everyone on the last lap.

 

[Kwibus]

It wouldn't even surprise me if he's going to be nowhere next year and it'll take longer for him to find his motivation back.

I have the same feeling. It seems that it takes a lot out of Vingegaard mentally. I guess it's something for the Vingegaard thread, but it's also relevant for Pogacar, because if Vingegaard isn't able to reset mentally and isn't able to focus on cycling 100% anymore he won't be a real threat for Pogi anymore.
Let's hope I'm wrong, because Pogacar needs a challenger like Vingegaard.

 

[dercuforever]

I read a lot of people thinking Pogacar'season is not that great due to missing some major wins.

Indeed, stats wise, it is not the best one.
But what matter a lot for a rider's legacy is the impression he made on watchers.

For me, even though he lost in the TDF, in MSR and in RVV, he was the most memorable rider in those races, or at least on par with the winner.

 

[tobydawq]

I read a lot of people thinking Pogacar'season is not that great due to missing some major wins.

Indeed, stats wise, it is not the best one.
But what matter a lot for a rider's legacy is the impression he made on watchers.

For me, even though he lost in the TDF, in MSR and in RVV, he was the most memorable rider in those races, or at least on par with the winner.

Agreed.

Which is also why I think Sagan is a lot bigger than "five major wins".

 

[BR2]

I read a lot of people thinking Pogacar'season is not that great due to missing some major wins.

Indeed, stats wise, it is not the best one.
But what matter a lot for a rider's legacy is the impression he made on watchers.

For me, even though he lost in the TDF, in MSR and in RVV, he was the most memorable rider in those races, or at least on par with the winner.

Definitely. But I'm actually even more impressed by van Aert, who looks like THE rider of the season to me, no matter wins or not wins.