Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Valanga]

On the topic of pulling numbers out of ... :

UAE Team responde a las críticas de Johan Bruyneel - Ciclismo Internacional

Por @pmpalermo Ayer se conocieron declaraciones de Johan Bruyneel en las que criticaba la “glotonería” deportiva...

www.ciclismointernacional.com

Remco is at 85-90%?
Well, our boy Tadej is at only 70% and winning with ease

 

[Red Rick]

On the topic of pulling numbers out of ... :

UAE Team responde a las críticas de Johan Bruyneel - Ciclismo Internacional

Por @pmpalermo Ayer se conocieron declaraciones de Johan Bruyneel en las que criticaba la “glotonería” deportiva...

www.ciclismointernacional.com

Remco is at 85-90%?
Well, our boy Tadej is at only 70% and winning with ease

Now which rider would have the maturity to say he's at 69%

 

[Krzysztof_O]

So is Teddy now only at 70%? God, save cycling!

 

[fmk_RoI]

UAE Team responde a las críticas de Johan Bruyneel - Ciclismo Internacional

Por @pmpalermo Ayer se conocieron declaraciones de Johan Bruyneel en las que criticaba la “glotonería” deportiva...

www.ciclismointernacional.com

Bruyneel's cautious approach - his lack of panache, his fear of making enemies in the peloton - always surprises me. He's so conservative in his attitudes. With him it's only about winning the Tour and you can only win the Tour by having friends in the peloton. He's a boring a DS as you can imagine.

 

[fmk_RoI]

To be fair to Pogačar his stated reason for skipping out of Strade Bianche despite his earlier plans is PN's TTT:

“If I want to be really good in Paris-Nice, which I’ve never done before and it’s a super hard race, the team time trial will be important and we need to spend a few days before the race together,” Pogačar explained. “If I do Strade Bianche that’s impossible, I’d go to the team time trial without any knowledge of the group and don’t think it’d work.”

Given UAE's UAE TTT yesterday, this does seem needed. And yes, they did have the misfortune of starting early yesterday, before the wind dropped, but even setting speed alone aside they looked quite ragged in places and could do with tightening things up.

That they didn't consider this earlier ...

 

[Tim Cahill]

He might be overestimating early season Jonas, who will likely be decent but not fighting for the win on previous evidence. He seems extra motivated after losing the tour last season. Simon Philip will be 2nd I think.

That disrespectful nonsense from Matxin isn't needed, don't say he's only at 70% after comprehensively beating his opponents.

 

[tobydawq]

To be fair to Pogačar his stated reason for skipping out of Strade Bianche despite his earlier plans is PN's TTT:Given UAE's UAE TTT yesterday, this does seem needed. And yes, they did have the misfortune of starting early yesterday, before the wind dropped, but even setting speed alone aside they looked quite ragged in places and could do with tightening things up.

That they didn't consider this earlier ...

Also, he has done only one TTT in his life as a pro before. The slippery watery show on the first stage of the 2019 Vuelta where his whole team crashed due to a punctured lawn swimming pool.

 

[Andy schleck]

He might be overestimating early season Jonas, who will likely be decent but not fighting for the win on previous evidence. He seems extra motivated after losing the tour last season. Simon Philip will be 2nd I think.

That disrespectful nonsense from Matxin isn't needed, don't say he's only at 70% after comprehensively beating his opponents.

Jumbo visma diretor said today that vingegaard came from one month at altitude camp, and that PN is a serious goal for him.

Why pogacar didn't do a altitude camp? Normally in january/february, he does a altitude camp in teide.

 

[Bonimenier]

To be fair to Pogačar his stated reason for skipping out of Strade Bianche despite his earlier plans is PN's TTT:Given UAE's UAE TTT yesterday, this does seem needed. And yes, they did have the misfortune of starting early yesterday, before the wind dropped, but even setting speed alone aside they looked quite ragged in places and could do with tightening things up.

That they didn't consider this earlier ...

Looking at the intermediate splits, it looked more like the wind increased during the race in the TTT in UAE, so that can't really be an excuse for their not so great performance.

 

[perico]

Perico thought wrong.

Re Vingegaard: I 'think' this whole debate is due to the use of SUPER peak as a phrase. I agree with Red Rick, that he peaks for the TDF (which is normal), rather than super peaks, since 2nd in T-A and Dauphne isn't exactly autobus fodder form.

Like I mentioned, I was getting him and Aru mixed up. It was Aru who broke away and won a stage in 2015.

 

[Gratemans]

To be fair to Pogačar his stated reason for skipping out of Strade Bianche despite his earlier plans is PN's TTT:Given UAE's UAE TTT yesterday, this does seem needed. And yes, they did have the misfortune of starting early yesterday, before the wind dropped, but even setting speed alone aside they looked quite ragged in places and could do with tightening things up.

That they didn't consider this earlier ...

Big budget =/= professionalism. You come across this attitude in all kinds of sports. Sports teams (and their personnel) that have easy access to a boatload of money tend to get complacent. Teams that have gradually grown however, have learned to squeeze as much as they can out of a buck. They take that experience with them and might even develop a long-term vision along the way.
Either that, or the investing party actually has real passion for the sport and knows it's not only about buying the best athletes, but also about spending money on creating a good environment for them to perform and surround them with quality staff. I love Poga, but I've always had the feeling UAE is severely lacking in everything I just mentioned.

 

[Oldermanish]

Jumbo visma diretor said today that vingegaard came from one month at altitude camp, and that PN is a serious goal for him.

Why pogacar didn't do a altitude camp? Normally in january/february, he does a altitude camp in teide.

If you're on and upward performance arc toward a peak (or mini-peak), winning races solo my guess is altitude training isn't currently necessary. Altitude benefits are not eternal so, if you want to gain benefit on that peak you'd likely add the altitude closer to a rest/train stress period that builds to the focus event. Then you'd slack off to your main event with a PN to validate your preparation. Then, maybe, go to altitude again and log miles to get used to 6 hr days for 3 weeks.
If he's got an altitude-regulated sleeping environment the trip isn't needed and you can train where you feel comfortable.

 

[Nick2413]

...and gauge the team's strength I would guess. If you need to adjust a roster or Tour strategy this is the best opportunity to figure it out.

While this may be true, I think these sort of exploits are a double edged sword. Vingegaard will be nowhere near Tour level and Jumbo have no reason to race the way they would at the Tour, so I don’t see how there’s that much benefit for UAE. Even if Vingo and JV are strong it’s just a risk of blowing the load 2 months early. Winning would give overconfidence.

UAE need to take their best riders to the Tour and throw it all on the table on the high mountain stages hoping Pog can hold on for dear life while letting him do his magic on the other stages with the 20 minute climbs he always dominates. With a bit of luck he can win.

 

[Nick2413]

Jumbo visma diretor said today that vingegaard came from one month at altitude camp, and that PN is a serious goal for him.

Why pogacar didn't do a altitude camp? Normally in january/february, he does a altitude camp in teide.

I never understand the timing of these altitude camps. Altitude benefits only last a couple weeks and everyone is coming down from the camp practically a month before the goal race.

 

[Oldermanish]

While this may be true, I think these sort of exploits are a double edged sword. Vingegaard will be nowhere near Tour level and Jumbo have no reason to race the way they would at the Tour, so I don’t see how there’s that much benefit for UAE. Even if Vingo and JV are strong it’s just a risk of blowing the load 2 months early. Winning would give overconfidence.

UAE need to take their best riders to the Tour and throw it all on the table on the high mountain stages hoping Pog can hold on for dear life while letting him do his magic on the other stages with the 20 minute climbs he always dominates. With a bit of luck he can win.

It's a dress rehearsal for what a team might face. Roglic used it to check his form and JV undoubtedly noted who was there when the riding got challenging and who wasn't in past editions. Of course they would gauge effort and "success" based on what's expected in several months and not waste resources unnecessarily. The constants of promoter, support and some of the parcours are all relevant to the Tour with Vingo and Pogi as just lead actors for their teams, or should be.

 

[tobydawq]

On the topic of pulling numbers out of ... :

UAE Team responde a las críticas de Johan Bruyneel - Ciclismo Internacional

Por @pmpalermo Ayer se conocieron declaraciones de Johan Bruyneel en las que criticaba la “glotonería” deportiva...

www.ciclismointernacional.com

Remco is at 85-90%?
Well, our boy Tadej is at only 70% and winning with ease

Apparently, Jumbo are saying that Vingegaard will be at 98% in his season opener.

It will be interesting to see if Pogi has any chance against Vingegaard in Paris-Nice at a 28 percentage point deficit.

The next person (rider, director or journalist) I see saying crap like that will be sent a carton of sour milk.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Apparently, Jumbo are saying that Vingegaard will be at 98% in his season opener.

It will be interesting to see if Pogi has any chance against Vingegaard in Paris-Nice at a 28 percentage point deficit.

The next person (rider, director or journalist) I see saying crap like that will be sent a carton of sour milk.

Jumbo trying really hard to put out the flames on all this Vingegaard super peak talk.

 

[Nick2413]

I couldn't possibly comment on what the purpose of those camps is.

I would be utterly shocked if the purpose wasn’t to get a visit from the altitude fairy.

 

[tobydawq]

I thought you were kidding, but they (Robert Wagner) really said it (about OGC):

Jumbo-Visma start met Vingegaard in Spanje: “Puntjes op de i om in Parijs-Nice heel goed te zijn”

Donderdag gaan we het seizoensdebuut van Jonas Vingegaard zien in O Gran Camiño. De Deense winnaar van de Tour de France zal goed van start willen gaan, aangezien in Parijs-Nice het treffen wacht met een ontketende Tadej Pogačar. "Jonas leeft niet onder een steen. Hij weet ook dat Pogacar heel goe

www.wielerflits.be

“Jonas heeft een heel goede hoogtestage achter de rug, hij is heel goed voorbereid. En we gaan hier hopelijk de puntjes op de i zetten. Wil je in Parijs-Nice schitteren en 100% zijn, dan moet je hier al 98% zijn”

->"Jonas has had a very good altitude training, he is very well prepared. And we will hopefully connect the dots here. If you want to shine in Paris-Nice and be 100%, you have to be 98% here already."

So Vingegaard will be at 100 % in Paris - Nice in fact!

Maybe Pogi can increase his shape to 72% by the time the race rolls out.

 

[Nick2413]

All this talk of percentages is ridiculous.

 

[fmk_RoI]

All this talk of percentages is ridiculous.

Not all of it. About 94%, maybe.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

83% of all team statements are completely made up. True story.

 

[Red Rick]

83% of all team statements are completely made up. True story.

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet"

~Erwin Schrödinger

 

[Nick2413]

Percentages are the new marginal gains. If you can be 75% at one race and 90% at another then add the difference for the Tour you’re at 105% and have turned water into wine.

 

[SafeBet]

Percentages are the new marginal gains. If you can be 75% at one race and 90% at another then add the difference for the Tour you’re at 105% and have turned water into wine.

Or into Vine, which should prove more helpful.