Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[DNP-Old]

Yeah, I really don't get why people find that smile so charming.

Because he's having fun and wants to race 100% of the time.

 

[red_flanders]

Because he's having fun and wants to race 100% of the time.

^^^ THIS

 

[Bolder]

Can't believe he won today riding that boat anchor Colnago.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Think how much time riding a different bike would have gotten

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Strong performance. Not that something else was expected.

 

[DNP-Old]

Can't believe he won today riding that boat anchor Colnago.

I know this is irony, but let's get this out of the way: their climbing frame and set up is actually fairly decent to even pretty good, always has been.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Biggest talent since Boonen

It's not easy to compare talents but to me he's the best road cyclist I've ever seen (last 25 years, I mean overall performance across the season).

 

[DNP-Old]

^^^ THIS

That is also why the critique of Bruyneel is so backwards. We got riders like Pogchamp and many more (Mathieu, Wout, Remco, Pidcock e.g.) who just ride on instinct, who ride like they could give two sh!ts about tomorrow. That should be applauded. They couldn't promote cycling better if they tried.

Instead there are boomers who are still stuck in 2002 where the TDF is be-all and end-all.

 

[red_flanders]

That is also why the critique of Bruyneel is so backwards. We got riders like Pogchamp and many more (Mathieu, Wout, Remco, Pidcock e.g.) who just ride on instinct, who ride like they could give two sh!ts about tomorrow. That should be applauded. They couldn't promote cycling better if they tried.

Instead there are boomers who are still stuck in 2002 where the TDF is be-all and end-all.

What is (or where is) the critique of Bruyneel? I generally find him to be pretty on point with his observations.

 

[Red Rick]

I guess it's pure instinct to simply be lol stronger than everyone else 90% of the season

 

[DNP-Old]

What is (or where is) the critique of Bruyneel? I generally find him to be pretty on point with his observations.

“In the long run, killing everyone like this is not the best tactic. You want to keep some teams and riders on friendly terms, and that is also better physically. Now his teammates are riding themselves to pieces, so that Pogacar can win this race. Some of them now have to recover from that for two weeks.”

“July is what counts,” Bruyneel continues, casting his eye to the central event in Pogacar's racing calendar for 2023, the Tour de France. “It's nice that you have such an enthusiastic rider, but I think that needs to be tempered in the support car. It must be calculating and cold there," Bruyneel muses.

 

[Lequack]

What can you even say at this point. Just lucky we're in the era to see this man in action. Hats off.

 

[bNator]

Bruyneel’s stance here is wrong on many levels. First of all, if his team wants to be cold and calculating, then they are going to do everything to increase his market value. And Pogacar’s market value is way bigger than Vingegaards for instance even though the latter is the more recent TDF winner. So I guess isolated TDF victory is less than being successful and entertaining all year round…

It’s not just July that counts. For Lance, that may have been true because mainstream USA doesn’t care about much else than TDF. In Europe, it’s different. A rider can be perceived extremely successful even though he wins other races than TDF.

And lastly, when all is said and done, Pogi may have better TDF palmares than Lance (clinic non-corrected) anyway, all this while being an all-round ass kicker and having lots of fun while doing it…

Edit: I knew I would forget something… If Pogacar cracks Vingegaard psychologically in March, then he will have an easier job in July.

 

[Breh]

I guess it's pure instinct to simply be lol stronger than everyone else 90% of the season

Meh, plenty of riders who are easily the strongest and boring as fck.

 

[Baldinger]

He needs to overcome something tough before I can cheer on him. A hero needs a struggle.

 

[Extinction]

Bruyneel’s stance here is wrong on many levels. First of all, if his team wants to be cold and calculating, then they are going to do everything to increase his market value. And Pogacar’s market value is way bigger than Vingegaards for instance even though the latter is the more recent TDF winner. So I guess isolated TDF victory is less than being successful and entertaining all year round…

It’s not just July that counts. For Lance, that may have been true because mainstream USA doesn’t care about much else than TDF. In Europe, it’s different. A rider can be perceived extremely successful even though he wins other races than TDF.

And lastly, when all is said and done, Pogi may have better TDF palmares than Lance (clinic non-corrected) anyway, all this while being an all-round ass kicker and having lots of fun while doing it…

Edit: I knew I would forget something… If Pogacar cracks Vingegaard psychologically in March, then he will have an easier job in July.

I get this, but even in Europe winning the Tour is the trump card. I'm not defending Bruyneel, for goodness sake, but don't underestimate the power of the Tour. It is what it is. And if the Tour has taken on such gargantuan prestige, it's also precisely because it's the only race that resonates globally. So Tadej killing it here only has a certain brandwith. It's what happens in July that really counts, as Bruyneel, however you see him, knowlegeably observes.

 

[red_flanders]

Ah! So critique "of Bruyneel" means Bruyneel's critique of Pogačar. I thought you meant a critique of Bruyneel's comments or observations.

Yeah, he's too TdF focused. So glad we have riders competing all year now.

 

[bNator]

I get this, but even in Europe winning the Tour is the trump card. I'm not defending Bruyneel, for goodness sake, but don't underestimate the power of the Tour. It is what it is. And if the Tour has taken on such gargantuan prestige, it's also precisely because it's the only race that resonates globally. So Tadej killing it here only has a certain brandwith. It's what happens in July that really counts, as Bruyneel, however you see him, knowlegeably observes.

I see it a bit differently. While I agree TDF is the most important single event in cycling, especially as it transcends the cycling community, there are still several possible scenarios to consider. If Pogacar’s style means he comes in second on Tour year after year, then this is a huge sacrifice to win classics and one week stage races. Especially because he won’t be able to retain his status as the best rider in peloton if he keeps getting beaten in TDF. But if he wins 5 Tours instead of 7 but on the other hand keeps winning everything in between the Tours, that’s a different story.

I’m sure if Pogacar keeps losing the Tour he will eventually change his approach to maximise his chances at winning TDF. But in my opinion, he’s not there yet. Last year may have been an outlier. I think it’s correct he keeps aiming higher than winning just the Tour and if it turns out his goals are indeed set to high, he can adapt and change his focus.

Bruyneel’s stance on the other hand is that Tour is so much more than everything else it’s not even worth trying to win anything else if that means a certain, however small amount of risk on your possible TDF victory. Here’s where I don’t agree with him…

I think 5 TDF victories combined with lots of classics, one week races and penache is worth more than 7 “boring” TDF victories…

 

[Extinction]

Ah! So critique "of Bruyneel" means Bruyneel's critique of Pogačar. I thought you meant a critique of Bruyneel's comments or observations.

Yeah, he's too TdF focused. So glad we have riders competing all year now.

Absolutely, if you were referring to me, I applaud the return to an era when riders competed fiercely over the who calendar. All I'm saying is that Bruyneel is correct to point out that the Biggest Deal is in July.

I see it a bit differently. While I agree TDF is the most important single event in cycling, especially as it transcends the cycling community, there are still several possible scenarios to consider. If Pogacar’s style means he comes in second on Tour year after year, then this is a huge sacrifice to win classics and one week stage races. Especially because he won’t be able to retain his status as the best rider in peloton if he keeps getting beaten in TDF. But if he wins 5 Tours instead of 7 but on the other hand keeps winning everything in between the Tours, that’s a different story.

I’m sure if Pogacar keeps losing the Tour he will eventually change his approach to maximise his chances at winning TDF. But in my opinion, he’s not there yet. Last year may have been an outlier. I think it’s correct he keeps aiming higher than winning just the Tour and if it turns out his goals are indeed set to high, he can adapt and change his focus.

Bruyneel’s stance on the other hand is that Tour is so much more than everything else it’s not even worth trying to win anything else if that means a certain, however small amount of risk on your possible TDF victory. Here’s where I don’t agree with him…

I agree with this and my point was only that a rider of his talent, who fails to win multiple Tours, despite his other numerous victories, will be ranked accordingly. It's a harsh reality, but unavoidable. If he is the next Merckx then he should be able to do what he is doing and still win many more Tours. The trouble for him is that we aren't in the late 60s, early 70s, so it's considerably more difficult. At any rate, what he is doing now in this age is mind-boggling. Bruyneel also warned about making too many enemies, by winning so much that the whole peloton works against you. This is an interesting observation that I shall be watching to see how it plays out henceforth.

 

[red_flanders]

Absolutely, if you were referring to me, I applaud the return to an era when riders competed fiercely over the who calendar. All I'm saying is that Bruyneel is correct to point out that the Biggest Deal is in July.

I was responding to DNP-OLD, but quoting their post was empty because it was all quotes.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Great ride today on stage 4 at PN. Considering how he raced in all 4 stages. JV was no match.

 

[gunara]

It's either losing TDF or his Flanders exploit, it's noticeable his popularity in this forum grows. Being so easily good, riding for an unromantic team, and not having a patriotic fanbase still keeps him in the midtable though.

 

[Colonel]

I don't see this performance anything out the ordinary for Pogacar and his competition.

Its March
Its cold
Different race only (P-N vs T-A)
Same result for him
Same result for competition

 

[Salvarani]

He been added to do E3 now as well.

Similar approach as to how he has ridden the Italian fall races with Giro dell'Emilia followed by Tre Valli Varesine and lastly Lombardia.

Now E3, Dwars and Ronde.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

He been added to do E3 now as well.

Similar approach as to how he has ridden the Italian fall races with Giro dell'Emilia followed by Tre Valli Varesine and lastly Lombardia.

Now E3, Dwars and Ronde.

It seems that Flandres is his biggest goal in the spring.