Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[SHAD0W93]

He is still a better climber at least until today in this tour because he is with the yellow jersey, and won more time in the stage of marie blanque than pogacar won in cauterets and puy de dome.

How so? Vinge gained 30-31 seconds and Pog has gained 32 seconds on the uphill. Therefore Pog has been the better climber as he gained more time and across multiple stages. Vinge further gained time on Pog in the descent and we have established and been shown Vinge is a better descender plus Pog sat up on the downhill so he didn’t waste energy like Vinge has been doing every single day and to have Adam and the group pace. Throw shade all you want, Vinge has been expanding a lot more energy compared to last year and in relation to Pog.

Can Vinge drop Pog like a bad habit, yes. But Pog has shown this year he’s able to stay on Vinge’s wheel and gain time at the end.

 

[Andy schleck]

How so? Vinge gained 30-31 seconds and Pog has gained 32 seconds on the uphill. Therefore Pog has been the better climber as he gained more time and across multiple stages. Vinge further gained time on Pog in the descent and we have established and been shown Vinge is a better descender plus Pog sat up on the downhill so he didn’t waste energy like Vinge has been doing every single day and to have Adam and the group pace. Throw shade all you want, Vinge has been expanding a lot more energy compared to last year and in relation to Pog.

Can Vinge drop Pog like a bad habit, yes. But Pog has shown this year he’s able to stay on Vinge’s wheel and gain time at the end.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1676610795025711106

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36 seconds.

Yes, i agree. Vingegaard wasted more unecessary energy than pogacar in some moments, like on tourmalet. The draft was high. Pogacar was smart, Vingegaard should had stopped after pogacar being able to follow him.

 

[SHAD0W93]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1676610795025711106

View: https://twitter.com/velofacts/status/1676610795025711106


36 seconds.

Yes, i agree. Vingegaard wasted more unecessary energy than pogacar in some moments, like on tourmalet. The draft was high. Pogacar was smart, Vingegaard should had stopped after pogacar being able to follow him.

Fair enough, my 1 Mississippi 2 Mississippi was off.

 

[Peyroteo94]

And he is safe! Tomorrow will be just like yesterday so he should ride defensively and his Tour will start again. Fingers crossed for no crashes. Hope to see Vingegaard healthy too in the mountains.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1676610795025711106

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36 seconds.

Yes, i agree. Vingegaard wasted more unecessary energy than pogacar in some moments, like on tourmalet. The draft was high. Pogacar was smart, Vingegaard should had stopped after pogacar being able to follow him.

I don't recall you saying that Pogacar lost Hautacam cause he wasted lots of energy on Spendelles (while Vinge only following wheel until last few km). No draft mention, only that Vinge was just better.

 

[Andy schleck]

I don't recall you saying that Pogacar lost Hautacam cause he wasted lots of energy on Spendelles (while Vinge only following wheel until last few km). No draft mention, only that Vinge was just better.

Spandelles is more steep than tourmalet. For what i saw on ammattipyoraily results, he didn’t benefited that much from the draft on spandelles.

He benefited a lot from the draft on galibier. Actually, Vingegaard did the same mistake on tourmalet, that pogacar did on galibier.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Spandelles is more steep than tourmalet. For what i saw on ammattipyoraily results, he didn’t benefited that much from the draft on spandelles.

He benefited a lot from the draft on galibier. Actually, Vingegaard did the same mistake on tourmalet, that pogacar did on galibier.

Not at all, last few km of Tourmalet are 9%+ so steeper than Spendelles actually. Plus Pogacar performed some big accelerations on Spendelles and lead Vinge longer than the Dane on Tourmalet. Your memory seems pretty selective.

 

[Andy schleck]

Not at all, last few km of Tourmalet are 9%+ so steeper than Spendelles actually. Plus Pogacar performed some big accelerations on Spendelles and lead Vinge longer than the Dane on Tourmalet. Your memory seems pretty selective.

What's your point? I wasn't even criticizing pogacar for drafting, in my post.

 

[Netserk]

It's not rocket science. Two different stages were different. Shocking.

Yes, even if he benefitted from drafting Pogi, Vingegaard was clearly the strongest rider on Hautacam. You can argue that logic should mean that Pogi was strongest on Tourmalet/Cambasque, and that may very well be the case, but everything else is not equal, so it does not follow automatically.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

What's your point? I wasn't even criticizing pogacar for drafting, in my post.

It's not about criticizing, I think I made it clear what I meant (selective memory regarding drafting depending if your fave won or not). I think it's clear that Vinge was the strongest on Hautacam climb and Pogacar on Cauterets climb. But in both cases things that happened before the decisive attacks could have affected the final gap (because Vinge wanted to kill Pogacar in the 1st week and because Pog desperately needed to overcome a large deficit in the 3rd week).

 

[Andy schleck]

It's not about criticizing, I think I made it clear what I meant (selective memory regarding drafting depending if your fave won or not). I think it's clear that Vinge was the strongest on Hautacam climb and Pogacar on Cauterets climb. But in both cases things that happened before the decisive attacks could have affected the final gap (because Vinge wanted to kill Pogacar in the 1st week and because Pog desperately needed to overcome a large deficit in the 3rd week).

I told you that vingegaard benefited from the draft on galibier, and that made some difference on granon. If i have selective memory, i wouldn't be saying this. I don't think the draft was that relevant on spandelles, because I think there was headwind on tourmalet, and not on spandelles, besides the stepness in the last 8 km.

Nevertheless, i wasn't discussing any of that.

 

[pelotonIQ]

It's good that we have someone like Vinge or else the tour would be over in the first week, but let's not pretend he is better than Poga or maybe he is (according to some) at 5000m above sea with Grischa moaning ''come on, come on'' in his ear.

 

[DNP-Old]

It's good that we have someone like Vinge or else the tour would be over in the first week, but let's not pretend he is better than Poga or maybe he is (according to some) at 5000m above sea with Grischa moaning ''come on, come on'' in his ear.

5000 meters? We racing on Kilimanjaro?

 

[Miha81]

5000 meters? We racing on Kilimanjaro?

Now that would be fun to watch. A king stage of Tour de Africa

 

[Lorzenz08]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1676610795025711106

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36 seconds.

Yes, i agree. Vingegaard wasted more unecessary energy than pogacar in some moments, like on tourmalet. The draft was high. Pogacar was smart, Vingegaard should had stopped after pogacar being able to follow him.

In retrospect it is easy to think that.

But for example in Granon stage last year, Pogacar was also following all the attacks until the final climb in Granon.
Imagine they would have stopped attacking before when they saw Pogacar covered all the attacks....

 

[Peter von]

In retrospect it is easy to think that.

But for example in Granon stage last year, Pogacar was also following all the attacks until the final climb in Granon.
Imagine they would have stopped attacking before when they saw Pogacar covered all the attacks....

difference is that on Granon they had lured Tadej into burning matches and Jonas wasn't in yellow, they were risking their 2nd place not the lead.

on Tourmalet Jonas had spent more energy the day before(Pogi was caught on the descent and got Yates to do the work), Vingegaard was also in yellow with a nice little time buffer.

 

[Andy schleck]

In retrospect it is easy to think that.

But for example in Granon stage last year, Pogacar was also following all the attacks until the final climb in Granon.
Imagine they would have stopped attacking before when they saw Pogacar covered all the attacks....

Different situation. It was 2 vs 1.....

 

[pelotonIQ]

difference is that on Granon they had lured Tadej into burning matches and Jonas wasn't in yellow, they were risking their 2nd place not the lead.

on Tourmalet Jonas had spent more energy the day before(Pogi was caught on the descent and got Yates to do the work), Vingegaard was also in yellow with a nice little time buffer.

You're wrong.

Nobody lured Poga into burning matches, he knew what he was doing and well aware of what was going on.

 

[Peter von]

You're wrong.

Nobody lured Poga into burning matches, he knew what he was doing and well aware of what was going on.

of cause he was well aware what was going on, but he still burned the matches because of the situation Jumbo created. And he probably wasn't well aware that Roglic was on his way out of the race.

 

[pelotonIQ]

of cause he was well aware what was going on, but he still burned the matches because of the situation Jumbo created. And he probably wasn't well aware that Roglic was on his way out of the race.

He didn't have to.

Watching it back, the smartest move would have been to call the bluff and let Roglic who was 3 minutes down go and attempt a 60km solo over Galibier and Granon.

 

[Monsi]

He didn't have to.

Watching it back, the smartest move would have been to call the bluff and let Roglic who was 3 minutes down go and attempt a 60km solo over Galibier and Granon.

1. No one else but Jumbo knew the extent of Roglic's injuries. In Pogi's mind, he must've thought Roglic was not that banged up from the hay bale crash, especially after Roglic finished third on LSPDBF. He was not willing to let Roglic get back into the GC fight.

2. Wout was up the road at then. Roglic would've been paced by Wout probably until the start of Granon (or halfway up it).

 

[pelotonIQ]

1. No one else but Jumbo knew the extent of Roglic's injuries. In Pogi's mind, he must've thought Roglic was not that banged up from the hay bale crash, especially after Roglic finished third on LSPDBF. He was not willing to let Roglic get back into the GC fight.

2. Wout was up the road at then. Roglic would've been paced by Wout probably until the start of Granon (or halfway up it).

3. Poga would have been reunited with his domestiques. He wasn't going to be left alone in no mans land.

He had a nice 3 minute buffer on Roglic that he earned himself on stage 5.
There is nothing wrong with enjoying the fruits of your labour.

 

[Peter von]

There is nothing wrong with enjoying the fruits of your labour.

Someone should have told this to Jumbo last week

 

[Gigs_98]

I really don't know what to think of the way UAE is playing this. I mean, I can absolutely see what they are going for. They have a way to consistently gain time on Vingegaard without Pog ever being particularly exposed and without him ever having to leave too much energy on the road.

But then there is this little voice in my head telling me that in cycling you should always take time while you can. As much as I understand this kind of racing, it's what lost Roglic the Tour to Pogacar in 2020. I think they should try a truly full on attack on Vingegaard at least once this weekend, probably on Sunday. They just have to take advantage of Pogacar apparently being able to drop Vingegaard. Or maybe they don't actually think Pogacar can do that in a longer effort?

 

[Peyroteo94]

He needs to bring his A game on stage 16 and stage 17, otherwise he is screwed