Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Armchair Cyclist]

You cant compare cycling from then

Don't tell me what I can and can't do please. (Especially if having said it can't be done you then compare different eras in 4 aspects)

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

I dont expect cycling to become less competetive like those days.

You seem to be celebrating cycling not being competitive now in the majority of your posts.

 

[James M]

You seem to be celebrating cycling not being competitive now in the majority of your posts.

Think you need to read the post again, cycling is more competitve than ever, were in a golden era. And yeah I love watching history unfold my bad.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Think you need to read the post again, cycling is more competitve than ever, were in a golden era. And yeah I love watching history unfold my bad.

Please don't be rude to me: I read that post perfectly accurately. I am challenging whether you are being consistent in making the statement.

I have also read many posts in which you express delight that others are not keeping up with (i.e. competitive with) Pogacar. Do you believe that he is better than others do a degree at which results are predictable or not?

 

[Cookster15]

people on this forum spent the first quarter of this year complaining that cycling was ruined because Jumbo was winning all the time.

Well I don’t know why but Jumbo seemed more like Sky to me than UAE. It is not just the riders but the management. It’s a personal opinion but it was Jumbo’s misplaced confidence they had Pogacar’s measure with Vingegaard in the Tour which really put me off them. This confidence existed despite his April crash. It can come across as arrogance. The other reason why Visma resembled Sky to me was their focus on the Tour. But I noticed Richard Plugge went quiet after the PdB stage. Only then could I begin to have sympathy for Jonas.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Pogacar doesn't have any fault that his rivals are 2 steps below him. At this moment we no longer have the Big 6, we have the Big 1.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

What Cookster said. I agree with that. Visma management are trash. I wouldn't have any problem with that because trash is trash, but it affects the riders as well. I would love to see WvA on another team. I'd like Vingo elsewhere too.

 

[Izzyeviel]

Can you cite that (assuming you mean Visma, as there has been no Jumbo this year)? Because pre-Giro, Visma had 18 wins, UAE had 30 (even Decathlon has 14).

never mind the forum meltdown in the months following Sepp destroying everyone at the Vuelta, From March 10th, one poster wrote

Their GC guy (Jonas) makes the stage races he enters a foregone conclusion. Super talents like Ajuso and young grand tour winners like hindley can't hold his wheel.

They turned tratnik, a 34yo who couldn't make the WT in his 20s, into a top classics champion. Same with Christopher Laporte.

Wva in le tour 2022 was the most obvious doped rider I have ever seen.

They made sep kuss a gt winner. What a joke.

Although big shout out to this guy who predicted it wouldn't be a good season for the yellow bees.

only 3 wins, no where at UAE, & Wout could only manage a third. Time to panic?

But the point is: who cares? A team with the top guys who can deliver them to races in top form will always get results. Enjoy the best acting like they're the best. As the yellow bees have demonstrated, even with the best team its very difficult to make it last.

I've been watching this sport since the 90's. Pogacar is the first GC guy who wants & can win everything. Enjoy it. He may never win a grand tour again.

 

[Cookster15]

I've been watching this sport since the 90's. Pogacar is the first GC guy who wants & can win everything. Enjoy it. He may never win a grand tour again.

Same here - been following the sport since the 90s. Not sure Pog won’t win another grand tour though!

 

[scribers]

Well I don’t know why but Jumbo seemed more like Sky to me than UAE. It is not just the riders but the management. It’s a personal opinion but it was Jumbo’s misplaced confidence they had Pogacar’s measure with Vingegaard in the Tour which really put me off them. This confidence existed despite his April crash. It can come across as arrogance. The other reason why Visma resembled Sky to me was their focus on the Tour. But I noticed Richard Plugge went quiet after the PdB stage. Only then could I begin to have sympathy for Jonas.

Agreed. Marginal gains to the hilt. Top GC guy only racing in July, counting watts as a method of beating pogi (and doing so). This racing by pogi may appear predictable, but his preparation was necessitated by a much stronger and better managed team in jumbo.

 

[Cookster15]

I'd like Vingo elsewhere too.

I wonder this too. When Vingegaard became emotional after stage 19 in the Tour I saw a human side. I couldn’t help but wonder if at least privately he might resent the pressure placed on him by Visma team management to win this year’s Tour despite his massive April crash.

 

[Rob5091]

Well, UAE tried with the team pushing hard at the front, then waiting for the sprint and now it was, why not just go from the first time up the climb. Unfortunately another hilarious display of one guy just riding off into the distance.

 

[BigCoward]

Predictions for first time he loses in the WC jersey, and how many days he actually spends wearing it next year. Most stage races he's going to be in the leaders jersey from stage 2-3.

 

[Salvarani]

Well, UAE tried with the team pushing hard at the front, then waiting for the sprint and now it was, why not just go from the first time up the climb. Unfortunately another hilarious display of one guy just riding off into the distance.

Weather played a big part here and others attacked before him. It made sense to go as well. He could ride the climbs in his own controlled pace and didnt have to take risks on the descents.

 

[Salvarani]

never mind the forum meltdown in the months following Sepp destroying everyone at the Vuelta, From March 10th, one poster wrote


Although big shout out to this guy who predicted it wouldn't be a good season for the yellow bees.


But the point is: who cares? A team with the top guys who can deliver them to races in top form will always get results. Enjoy the best acting like they're the best. As the yellow bees have demonstrated, even with the best team its very difficult to make it last.

I've been watching this sport since the 90's. Pogacar is the first GC guy who wants & can win everything. Enjoy it. He may never win a grand tour again.

Good post.

 

[Salvarani]

Pogacar doesn't have any fault that his rivals are 2 steps below him. At this moment we no longer have the Big 6, we have the Big 1.

Exactly.

But anyone who is as great or dominant as he is, will naturally have individuals who dont like him.

It happens in every sport when someone or a team is too dominant.

Most other football fans hated the Patriots for a long time. Just an example. Or Man United for that matter until Ferguson stepped down. Liverpool in the 70s-80s. How long do we have? Phelps, Merckx, Bjorgen, Johaug, AVV, Bolt, Kipchoge, Duplantis....

People who were Messi fans hated Ronaldo and vice versa.

 

[Salvarani]

Can you cite that (assuming you mean Visma, as there has been no Jumbo this year)? Because pre-Giro, Visma had 18 wins, UAE had 30 (even Decathlon has 14).

Jumbo had 24 wins before the Giro last season, where he said everybody was complaining about their dominance. I think that was the point the other poster was making to highlight that there is not much objectivity on matters. Jumbo had a good year last season, this year they have had bad luck with crashes for a number of their best riders which have affected them.

It has been UAE year and they taken more wins because of the problems the other top teams have had, naturally they are receiving the same treatment and told it is boring etc.

It just changes each year. Maybe next year it will Jumbo having a good year again. Or Soudal. Ineos. Redbull. Lidl. UAE could have good year again. Who knows.

 

[Tanakka]

Pogacar doesn't have any fault that his rivals are 2 steps below him. At this moment we no longer have the Big 6, we have the Big 1.

Pogi is #1 by far, and everyone else is a distant second, but wouldn't MVDP still be the favorite in P-R and even other classics if they were to face?

Putting aside the kind of races were Tadej would obviously have a hard time beating Pedersen, Philipsen, Girmay or certain pure sprinters.

 

[Salvarani]

Pogi is #1 by far, and everyone else is a distant second, but wouldn't MVDP still be the favorite in P-R and even other classics if they were to face?

Putting aside the kind of races were Tadej would obviously have a hard time beating Pedersen, Philipsen, Girmay or certain pure sprinters.

Yeah, a race like PR MVDP has to been seen as the favorite but nobody would be surprised to see Pog being a big rival there. Already beaten him in Ronde once and he has done well on the cobbles. Seen in the TdF on stages incoperating them. PR type stages.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Pogi is #1 by far, and everyone else is a distant second, but wouldn't MVDP still be the favorite in P-R and even other classics if they were to face?

Putting aside the kind of races were Tadej would obviously have a hard time beating Pedersen, Philipsen, Girmay or certain pure sprinters.

He would but I said we have a Big one only, not an invencible rider. But I think Pogacar is more capable of winning PR than MSR, he has the biggest engine in the world and the best classics team alongside Visma.

 

[Red Rick]

Sanremo is hard to win if you're the main favorite and everyone rides on your wheel. But I'm pretty convinced at this point that just doing tempo and waiting for the final kicker is not quite gonna do it for him. I actually believe a little more in attacking earlier when everyone else is out of position.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Sanremo is hard to win if you're the main favorite and everyone rides on your wheel. But I'm pretty convinced at this point that just doing tempo and waiting for the final kicker is not quite gonna do it for him. I actually believe a little more in attacking earlier when everyone else is out of position.

I think he will attack on Cipressa next year. Harder climb and devastating pace until his attack

 

[Salvarani]

I think he will attack on Cipressa next year. Harder climb and devastating pace until his attack

Have more roulers before Cipressa to be able to set a pace from the bottom is key here. Don’t get swamped before it.

 

[Red Rick]

I think he will attack on Cipressa next year. Harder climb and devastating pace until his attack

Cipressa attacks are like nuclear fusion. Always next year.

 

[theyoungest]

Yeah, a race like PR MVDP has to been seen as the favorite but nobody would be surprised to see Pog being a big rival there. Already beaten him in Ronde once and he has done well on the cobbles. Seen in the TdF on stages incoperating them. PR type stages.

I think in the flatter classics you can still see the difference between the more climber-type Pogacar and the more classics-type Van der Poel. The Ronde on its current course is more of an Ardennes type classic, so that's why he shines there. But if you take last year's Worlds, for instance, Pogi actually wasn't that impressive there. Neither was Evenepoel. That's where the pure Watts trump the relative Watts.

Or take the finish in last year's E3 Classic... Pogi got absolutely smoked there by Van Aert and Van der Poel. He's fast compared to climbers, but not compared to actual sprinters.