Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Peyroteo94]

I really want to know how would be possible in same time having GOAT rider but also "fun" cycling for everyone. I mean if you want to win 12 GTs, 20 Monuments, 3-4 WCs and other small races at least one time, you must be really really dominant for a decade or more. And because you never know how long you will be at your best or not injured you need to do it ASAP. Also you need to make your teammates happy and somehow also opponents. You shouldn't win with long attacks or waiting until uphill finish and also if there is third option you shouldn't win it because it is too dominant or joke.

And all this history of giving opportunities to his teammates need to stop. He should have loyal domestiques in every single race he targets. His teammates aren't able to win big, Adam is targetting the Giro after failing miserably in the 2024 Vuelta. Wellens and Narvaez want opportunities too. I just hope it is for minor races because if they think they can win RVV or other major classic, they are lunatic.

 

[YavorD]

Tour and Ardennes were so bad for years. And they decided to bring back Cauberg as the last climb of AGR. Dreadful decision. I just hope they don't go back to the previous LBL route.

But LBL has the same predictable scenario for 3 years now.

Lombardia and Roubaix last year were probably the most predictable monuments ever. Flanders had some minor hope for a battle. The biggest question for these 4 monuments was over or under 3 minutes.

I get your point about last decade and I don't deny any of it. My point is that when you have dominant rider(s) isn't much fun either and collectively 2024 was one of the least fun years for GTs and monuments

 

[Cookster15]

My point is that when you have dominant rider(s) isn't much fun either and collectively 2024 was one of the least fun years for GTs and monuments

That depends. If you were a Pogacar fan 2024 was awesome. Especially for those of us who were following cycling when the last Giro-Tour double was pulled off. Add to this the fact he redeemed his defeats in 22 and 23. But Pantani didn't win one day monuments, world champs and classics as well. Arguably the best season ever since Merckx 74.

For non Pogacar fans, yes sure 2024 was boring. But I have been on the other side too. Swings and roundabouts.

 

[Peyroteo94]

But LBL has the same predictable scenario for 3 years now.

Lombardia and Roubaix last year were probably the most predictable monuments ever. Flanders had some minor hope for a battle. The biggest question for these 4 monuments was over or under 3 minutes.

I get your point about last decade and I don't deny any of it. My point is that when you have dominant rider(s) isn't much fun either and collectively 2024 was one of the least fun years for GTs and monuments

I get your point too but 2024 was bad due to crashes. 2010-2018, classics were bad due to routes and peloton full of uphill sprinters like Gerrans, Martin, Valverde, Purito, etc

 

[Peyroteo94]

RVV and PR would be a lot better with WVA there. Vingegaard in the Tour if he had a perfect preparation. LBL with Remco too. I believe this year will be a lot better.

 

[YavorD]

That depends. If you were a Pogacar fan 2024 was awesome.

The only right way to judge races is from neutral point of view.

Otherwise every race is good because the fans of a certain rider enjoy it.
I guess Roglic fans enjoyed Giro 2023 and Koronin (for example) enjoyed LBL and FW in the last decade. Brits enjoyed Sky winning Tour after Tour so I guess all these races were fun as well?

 

[sam6]

But LBL has the same predictable scenario for 3 years now.

Lombardia and Roubaix last year were probably the most predictable monuments ever. Flanders had some minor hope for a battle. The biggest question for these 4 monuments was over or under 3 minutes.

I get your point about last decade and I don't deny any of it. My point is that when you have dominant rider(s) isn't much fun either and collectively 2024 was one of the least fun years for GTs and monuments

They were bad because it was totally one-sided and not cause of the route. I don't think they could have prepared a reasonable route such that it would have been a competitive race with those startlists

 

[YavorD]

They were bad because it was totally one-sided and not cause of the route. I don't think they could have prepared a reasonable route such that it would have been a competitive race with those startlists

But they were still bad.
Mortirolo-Aprica and Finestre-Sestriere are great route designs but if you're only question is whether Vingegaard wil attack 5 or 3 kilometres to the top and whether he'll put 2 or 3 minutes the stages are bad.

When you know the outcome before the race even starts that's hardly better than a bad route

 

[MerkantilMerch]

The only right way to judge races is from neutral point of view.

Otherwise every race is good because the fans of a certain rider enjoy it.
I guess Roglic fans enjoyed Giro 2023 and Koronin (for example) enjoyed LBL and FW in the last decade. Brits enjoyed Sky winning Tour after Tour so I guess all these races were fun as well?

Even from a neutral point of view Pogi style of racing always makes it very interesting.
He doesnt attack 500m from the finish line.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Even from a neutral point of view Pogi style of racing always makes it very interesting.
He doesnt attack 500m from the finish line.

This. Even if he is so much better, no one can convince me it is better to see Pogacar winning in an uphill sprint just like Valverde did many years or don't tell me it was worse to see 2024 Tour than all Sky TdF wins (with Froome, Wiggins and Thomas).
Every race with a predictable winner will be boring but it is way more exciting to see a long solo than an uphill sprint. Or some people really think Pogacar would lose SB if it had been an uphill sprint in Piazza del Campo? Or if you really think it would be more exciting?

 

[Peyroteo94]

But they were still bad.
Mortirolo-Aprica and Finestre-Sestriere are great route designs but if you're only question is whether Vingegaard wil attack 5 or 3 kilometres to the top and whether he'll put 2 or 3 minutes the stages are bad.

When you know the outcome before the race even starts that's hardly better than a bad route

What? Route has nothing to do with that. LBL route is very good, unfortunately we never get to see Remco vs Pogacar.

 

[Peyroteo94]

A powerhorse saying this just means Pogacar is better than ever. He will destroy everyone in the classics.

'I just want the legs of Tadej, just one time' - Nils Politt co-leads UAE Team Emirates at Omloop Het Nieuwsblad

German rider was second in 2024 race and has a big goals - 'Get on podium or go for win'

www.cyclingnews.com

 

[Extinction]

"I always say for my part that I just want the legs of Tadej, just one time, and even when he's at 90% that'd be fine by me. But in any case, we're all learning from him, not him from us." ---- Nils Politt

Sounds like he's talking about Jesus Christ.

 

[Peyroteo94]

"I always say for my part that I just want the legs of Tadej, just one time, and even when he's at 90% that'd be fine by me. But in any case, we're all learning from him, not him from us." ---- Nils Politt

Sounds like he's talking about Jesus Christ.

All of them had the privilege to train with him. They know how their legs hurt when they try to follow this slovenian monster.

 

[Salvarani]

GOAT inspiring everyone to be better and work hard

 

[YavorD]

Even from a neutral point of view Pogi style of racing always makes it very interesting.
He doesnt attack 500m from the finish line.

No it doesn't. The only interesting thing is what the gap will be. There's no battle, there are no questions "will they, wont they catch him" you only see a rider cruising to the line and that'll the opposite of fun.
And believe me most of the neutral fans (or the ones judging from the neutral point of view) don't enjoy that.
Long range attacks stop being fun the moment they become an instant win. Heck, people didn't even need to watch Lombardia and LBL to know exactly when Pogacar will attack and everyone knows the outcome afterwards

I would bet that if someone watches cycling for a first time and his first 2 races are LBL and Lombardia (or PR for that matter) he won't be impressed by "the great battle" for under/over 2 minutes.

 

[Breh]

Ronde 2023 was maybe the best and most entertaining monument of the decade despite Pogacar winning solo.

 

[jono]

Ronde 2023 was maybe the best and most entertaining monument of the decade despite Pogacar winning solo.

Did he ever have a gap greater than 25 seconds in that race?

 

[Netserk]

Ronde 2023 was maybe the best and most entertaining monument of the decade despite Pogacar winning solo.

Ronde and Amstel (2023 editions) had a lot of action before they were decided. Liège and Lombardia (2024 editions) had very little. In the former two, Pogi made moves and was part of select groups for a long time. In the latter two, he had his team control the race before the pivotal moment where he went solo and the race was immediately decided.

To sum up, it's not about Pogi winning being bad. It's the manner.

I really want to know how would be possible in same time having GOAT rider but also "fun" cycling for everyone. I mean if you want to win 12 GTs, 20 Monuments, 3-4 WCs and other small races at least one time, you must be really really dominant for a decade or more. And because you never know how long you will be at your best or not injured you need to do it ASAP. Also you need to make your teammates happy and somehow also opponents. You shouldn't win with long attacks or waiting until uphill finish and also if there is third option you shouldn't win it because it is too dominant or joke.

 

[2WpK]

Though some people find his dominance boring, I think it is hard to argue that Pog has not been great for pro cycling in general.

 

[yaf2]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1894892770000564367

View: https://x.com/CyclingUpToDat3/status/1894892770000564367?t=38aDgtfeiI1fUzp4TCuQ6g&s=19

So u win the battle for position for start of poggio and block the roads 🤣 a typical sprinters advice for the king

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Sounds like he's talking about Jesus Christ.

Last year I had the privilige to watch the Slovenian Jesus climbing towards Oropa Sanctuary. My life has never been the same again.

 

[Peyroteo94]

No it doesn't. The only interesting thing is what the gap will be. There's no battle, there are no questions "will they, wont they catch him" you only see a rider cruising to the line and that'll the opposite of fun.
And believe me most of the neutral fans (or the ones judging from the neutral point of view) don't enjoy that.
Long range attacks stop being fun the moment they become an instant win. Heck, people didn't even need to watch Lombardia and LBL to know exactly when Pogacar will attack and everyone knows the outcome afterwards

I would bet that if someone watches cycling for a first time and his first 2 races are LBL and Lombardia (or PR for that matter) he won't be impressed by "the great battle" for under/over 2 minutes.

But what can Pogi do? Not attend races?

 

[Peyroteo94]

Races being exciting or not has nothing to do with solos or uphill sprints but with Pogacar attending races or not. So the only solution is Pogacar annoucing his retirement from road racing.

 

[James M]

Ronde and Amstel (2023 editions) had a lot of action before they were decided. Liège and Lombardia (2024 editions) had very little. In the former two, Pogi made moves and was part of select groups for a long time. In the latter two, he had his team control the race before the pivotal moment where he went solo and the race was immediately decided.

To sum up, it's not about Pogi winning being bad. It's the manner.

I got no issue with people complaining about how he wins, I get it. But if I had a choice to go back and watch a race like for example RVV 15 which had alot suspense or Merckx in 73 PR where he crushed everyone.

I would choose Merckx 73 PR anytime, cause watching greatness over suspense is far more intriguing to me easily. Someone prefer suspense and someone much rather witness greatness if given the choice. Point is this is subjective, there is no right or wrong answers.