Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Peyroteo94]

Races being exciting or not has nothing to do with solos or uphill sprints but with Pogacar attending races or not. So the only solution is Pogacar annoucing his retirement from road racing.

 

[James M]

Ronde and Amstel (2023 editions) had a lot of action before they were decided. Liège and Lombardia (2024 editions) had very little. In the former two, Pogi made moves and was part of select groups for a long time. In the latter two, he had his team control the race before the pivotal moment where he went solo and the race was immediately decided.

To sum up, it's not about Pogi winning being bad. It's the manner.

I got no issue with people complaining about how he wins, I get it. But if I had a choice to go back and watch a race like for example RVV 15 which had alot suspense or Merckx in 73 PR where he crushed everyone.

I would choose Merckx 73 PR anytime, cause watching greatness over suspense is far more intriguing to me easily. Someone prefer suspense and someone much rather witness greatness if given the choice. Point is this is subjective, there is no right or wrong answers.

 

[YavorD]

But what can Pogi do? Not attend races?

Of course he has to attend races. But let's not pretend that it's (objectively) exciting especially in races like Lombardia. We didn't even have a race.

 

[Peyroteo94]

The problem is: there isn't really a solution to avoid predictable races when Pogacar is racing.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Of course he has to attend races. But let's not pretend that it's (objectively) exciting especially in races like Lombardia. We didn't even have a race.

But can you think in a more exciting outcome in that Lombardia win?

 

[Breh]

Ronde and Amstel (2023 editions) had a lot of action before they were decided. Liège and Lombardia (2024 editions) had very little. In the former two, Pogi made moves and was part of select groups for a long time. In the latter two, he had his team control the race before the pivotal moment where he went solo and the race was immediately decided.

To sum up, it's not about Pogi winning being bad. It's the manner.

Yes, the way it was won is probably more important.

In hindsight I don't think my comment was very relevant

 

[YavorD]

But can you think in a more exciting outcome in that Lombardia win?

I can't think of any less exciting way to win Lombardia. Race length was reduced to 200 kilometres because everyone and their mother knew that Pogacar will attack in the middle of Sormano and "the race" would be over.

His WC win was rather exciting though.

 

[Pogacsa]

Was the 2023 Lombardia boring to watch? Pogacar didn't shake off some big names on the last climb but launched on the downhill and managed to create a gap which grew. He then got cramp before recovering ...

This is one of the features of competitive sport. A rare individual comes along who for a period of time, is invincible, but ultimately the competitors adapt to reduce the gap. At Lombardia 2024, we saw a hint of how Pogacar can be combated in the way the break formed. In the end, UEA was too strong but is hinted a new tactics.

I remember from 2024 to 2027, Roger Federer seemed almost unbeatable. He played with an elegance and with a natural flair that I'm not sure has ever been surpassed. But this stimulated new approached and indeed, Federer was hauled back by Djokovic and Nadal who were physically fitter and more consistent hitters, particularly on the backhand side. But that in turn stimulated Federer to improve his game again on several occasions...

Yes, some races last year were a procession but I'm confident the gap will be closed.

 

[Netserk]

Races being exciting or not has nothing to do with solos or uphill sprints but with Pogacar attending races or not. So the only solution is Pogacar annoucing his retirement from road racing.

Win like in 2023, not like last year.

 

[Netserk]

I got no issue with people complaining about how he wins, I get it. But if I had a choice to go back and watch a race like for example RVV 15 which had alot suspense or Merckx in 73 PR where he crushed everyone.

I would choose Merckx 73 PR anytime, cause watching greatness over suspense is far more intriguing to me easily. Someone prefer suspense and someone much rather witness greatness if given the choice. Point is this is subjective, there is no right or wrong answers.

Did you also prefer last year's Roubaix over the 2016 or 2021 editions?

 

[Salvarani]

It is up to everybody else to find a way to beat him.

Not his fault he is the GOAT.

 

[James M]

Did you also prefer last year's Roubaix over the 2016 or 2021 editions?

That was Hayman and Colbrelli sprint wasnt it over Boonen and Mvpd? Awesome edition if its those. I enjoy both in different ways, alot of suspense, great I enjoy it, love that too just so its clear. But if I had to choose.

Yes, I would take watching one of the best cobble classic riders ever and modern generation in his absolute peak of his power(maybe) over those years for sure if I got a option to choose. Thats not to say I dont enjoy both. But bonified greatness in the scale peak MvdP is are way more rare and it intrigue me more than suspense alone without a doubt.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I can't think of any less exciting way to win Lombardia. Race length was reduced to 200 kilometres because everyone and their mother knew that Pogacar will attack in the middle of Sormano and "the race" would be over.

His WC win was rather exciting though.

It was boring? Of course! But Valverde winning in 2015 LBL was boring and very predictable too. What is the difference? For many of us, it is better to see an agressive ride like the one Pogacar had in Lombardia than a uphill sprint, specially when the outcome is very predictable.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Win like in 2023, not like last year.

But how can Pogacar win like 2023? Go on vacations and be badly prepared before important races just to be closer in level to his rivals?

 

[YavorD]

It was boring? Of course! But Valverde winning in 2015 LBL was boring and very predictable too. What is the difference? For many of us, it is better to see an agressive ride like the one Pogacar had in Lombardia than a uphill sprint, specially when the outcome is very predictable.

I'm fairly sure that the odds of Pogacar winning Lombardia (by attack on Sormano) were lower than Valverde winning all of them uphill sprints on Huy. Meaning that the race was as predictable and perhaps as boring, as FW.
The only positive of this was that people could turn off their TV's 80 minutes before the coverage ends, without missing on the winner.

Aggression isn't a great bonus when the racing quality is low and it leads to inevitable win.

 

[YavorD]

It was boring? Of course! But Valverde winning in 2015 LBL was boring and very predictable too. What is the difference? For many of us, it is better to see an agressive ride like the one Pogacar had in Lombardia than a uphill sprint, specially when the outcome is very predictable.

Besides, if you need to compare Pogacar's wind to uphill sprints to prove a point, even you know how boring and predictable many of these races were.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Besides, if you need to compare Pogacar's wind to uphill sprints to prove a point, even you know how boring and predictable many of these races were.

I already said I agree with you. But you still didn't tell me a more exciting way than a 45 km solo in Lombardia.

 

[Netserk]

I already said I agree with you. But you still didn't tell me a more exciting way than a 45 km solo in Lombardia.

Attack and bring Remco with him, then drop him on the last climb.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Attack and bring Remco with him, then drop him on the last climb.

Maybe you don't remember but Mas and Eetvelt were with Remco until the top.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I'm fairly sure that the odds of Pogacar winning Lombardia (by attack on Sormano) were lower than Valverde winning all of them uphill sprints on Huy. Meaning that the race was as predictable and perhaps as boring, as FW.
The only positive of this was that people could turn off their TV's 80 minutes before the coverage ends, without missing on the winner.

Aggression isn't a great bonus when the racing quality is low and it leads to inevitable win.

Not in a million years, Valverde would have lost an uphill sprint in LBL or FW in 2015 shape.

 

[Netserk]

Maybe you don't remember but Mas and Eetvelt were with Remco until the top.

If Evenepoel could have drafted Pogi, the other two would have been dropped on the climb.

 

[Peyroteo94]

If Evenepoel could have drafted Pogi, the other two would have been dropped on the climb.

So it was boring because Remco was not good enough. Nothing to do with Pogacar.

 

[Netserk]

So it was boring because Remco was not good enough. Nothing to do with Pogacar.

This was the post that started this line of discussion:

I really want to know how would be possible in same time having GOAT rider but also "fun" cycling for everyone. I mean if you want to win 12 GTs, 20 Monuments, 3-4 WCs and other small races at least one time, you must be really really dominant for a decade or more. And because you never know how long you will be at your best or not injured you need to do it ASAP. Also you need to make your teammates happy and somehow also opponents. You shouldn't win with long attacks or waiting until uphill finish and also if there is third option you shouldn't win it because it is too dominant or joke.

Can Pogi win in a manner fewer will complain about? Yes. He did so in 2023. So when people complain about his solos in 2024, it's not imposing impossible standards on him such that people will complain no matter what.

 

[Peyroteo94]

This was the post that started this line of discussion:

Can Pogi win in a manner fewer will complain about? Yes. He did so in 2023. So when people complain about his solos in 2024, it's not imposing impossible standards on him such that people will complain no matter what.

He didn't win in 2023 like he did in 2024 because he was weaker and had better competition (RVV for example).
But agree to disagree.

 

[Purito91]

Tour and Ardennes were so bad for years. And they decided to bring back Cauberg as the last climb of AGR. Dreadful decision. I just hope they don't go back to the previous LBL route.

Are they stupid? The routechange from 2017 was the best decision for this race.
Since then its my favorite ardennen classic.
Before that change this race was superboring and now it will be again. I cant belive it.