Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

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Cookster15

Cookster15

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May 14, 2011
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YavorD said:
Kinda hard to beat the GOAT when he retired nearly 50 years ago.
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I think you know why Pog is being projected as the GOAT? Pogacar has been with us as a pro since 2019. So not even 6 years. Was Eddy winning so much against farmers by 1971?

Merckx turned pro in 1965. I think Pog’s 2024 is already better than Merckx’s best year which was 1974? And so far he has continued 2025 where he left off in 2024.

Personally I will reserve judgement on the GOAT accolade until the Tour rematch with Vingo. If he goes back to back then difficult to argue against the GOAT claim as he will likely win a bunch of lesser races along the way. And competition today is lightyears better than in Merckx’s era.
 
Berniece

Berniece

Sep 12, 2022
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Cookster15 said:
Personally I will reserve judgement on the GOAT accolade until the Tour rematch with Vingo. If he goes back to back then difficult to argue against the GOAT claim as he will likely win a bunch of lesser races along the way. And competition today is lightyears better than in Merckx’s era.
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5 GT's, 7 monuments, and 1WC is suddenly better than 11GT's, 19 monuments and 3 WC's? Just because you feel there is more competition now?
 
YavorD

YavorD

Jul 8, 2017
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Cookster15 said:
I think you know why Pog is being projected as the GOAT? Pogacar has been with us as a pro since 2019. So not even 6 years. Was Eddy winning so much against farmers by 1971?
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I think you know that Gimondi and De Vlaeminck aren't farmers.
One could argue that riders today are actually less talented than they were back then but that's unprovable. As is the level of competition in the 70's.
Therefore if you want to compare something and crown a GOAT you can only compare wins or simply accept there's no GOAT.
 
Peyroteo94

Peyroteo94

Mar 20, 2022
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Cookster15 said:
I think that is a little premature. It depends how soon he gets back to full training. Remco was very good in the mountains in the '24 Tour. The best we have seen. And at his age he should only improve.
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He was very good compared to who? Pogacar was smashing him in every mountain stage. Vingegaard will have a better preparation this year and still gained minutes in the mountains to Remco. The gap is massive and will never close because it is too big. Remco can only win the Tour in his career if Pogacar and Vingegaard crash out. They are only 28 and 26 years old, there are 5 more years at least on them to be in their peak.
I also want to mention one thing. There is always this excuse Remco can get better because he is younger bla bla bla. However, Vingegaard and Pogacar are improving too, if we analyze their development as a cyclist, we will see in 2018, 2019, Remco was probably a better rider than Pogacar (I'm not even mentioning Vingegaard) but Pogacar has been developing way better and showing he is clearly a more natural climber.
So this nonsense about how Remco can still improve, needs to stop because he has the same/similar professional years of Pogacar despite being 16 months younger.
 
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Peyroteo94

Peyroteo94

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YavorD said:
Okay then, Merckx has been winning against farmers, Pogacar is winning against part time road cyclists (Van Der Poel, Pidcock..), ex fisherman, ex ski-jumper and a former football player. When you put like that, it doesn't seem impressive, does it?
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He was racing against some amateur riders. Farmers is obviously to mock some of his competition (even if some of those were really farmers), but most riders were amateurs or part time road cyclists so who was a professional rider had a big advantage (larger than nowadays).
In this era everyone is a professional rider which are very good news for us (cycling fans).
 
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YavorD

YavorD

Jul 8, 2017
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Peyroteo94 said:
He was racing against some amateur riders. Farmers is obviously to mock some of his competition (even if some of those were really farmers), but most riders were amateurs or part time road cyclists so who was a professional rider had a big advantage (larger than nowadays).
In this era everyone is a professional rider which are very good news for us (cycling fans).
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But the average Joe wasn't a competition for Merckx the same way as Max Poole isn't a competition for Pogacar.

Theirs respective opponents are the top 5-10 cyclists in that era. And almost non of Pogacar's opponents hasn't been a full time road cyclist in his youth.
 
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Peyroteo94

Peyroteo94

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YavorD said:
But the average Joe wasn't a competition for Merckx the same way as Max Poole isn't a competition for Pogacar.

Theirs respective opponents are the top 5-10 cyclists in that era. And almost non of Pogacar's opponents hasn't been a full time road cyclist in his youth.
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I already said one time, it is different to be the best from a sample of 1000 professional riders than to be the best from a sample of 50 professional riders.
 
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Salvarani

Oct 15, 2017
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Peyroteo94 said:
I already said one time, it is different to be the best from a sample of 1000 professional riders than to be the best from a sample of 50 professional riders.
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Exactly, Bert Van Lerberghe might have been Merckx greatest rival if he raced +50 years ago.
 
YavorD

YavorD

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Peyroteo94 said:
I already said one time, it is different to be the best from a sample of 1000 professional riders than to be the best from a sample of 50 professional riders.
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Well, if some football player can grab a bike and start winning (junior) races left and right probably the overall level of talent isn't that high.

If a slovenian ski jumper can start racing in his mid 20's , starts winning GT time trials 3-4 years later and big races and contend GT's further 2 years later maybe, just maybe, the level of competition nowadays isn't as high as you think it is?
 
YavorD

YavorD

Jul 8, 2017
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AmRacer said:
How many did Bill win?
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When I checked the NBA history, I didn't see Bill Russell.
I saw Boston Celtics, Los Angeles Lakers, Detroit Pistons, Chicago Bulls etc but never Bill Russell.

So perhaps he's been part of a team winning it, never won it himself, no?
 
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