Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Berniece]

It’s a great event primarily for its position in the calendar as the opening monument of the season.

If you swapped it with Lombardia the level of hype and prestige of both races would swap over entirely.

MSR is a curiosity in that it is simultaneously the longest race in the calendar and the one most suited to the YouTube era where a highlights video can safely just show the last 30km of the race in full and rarely miss anything of note.

I love it but if people are being honest it is a great final but not a great race overall as it is not must watch from start to finish like Flanders or Roubaix.

That's all true, but what makes MSR mostly unique is the diversity of it's winners. Everyone can win it if you're in decent shape, that makes it interesting. Putting in Manie won't change the final, it will just make the race a bit harder, and thus a bigger chance for Pogacar to win it. That's the only reason why this is even a discussion at the moment.

 

[hayneplane]

That's all true, but what makes MSR mostly unique is the diversity of it's winners. Everyone can win it if you're in decent shape, that makes it interesting. Putting in Manie won't change the final, it will just make the race a bit harder, and thus a bigger chance for Pogacar to win it. That's the only reason why this is even a discussion at the moment.

I think the Manie discussion is being viewed far too much through the lens of discussing one rider.

Manie has been in the race before from 2008-2014 so it is not adding anything totally new and unique to the race. Cavendish even won an edition with it in so it is not something that will automatically eliminate the sprinters.

 

[Berniece]

I think the Manie discussion is being viewed far too much through the lens of discussing one rider.

Manie has been in the race before from 2008-2014 so it is not adding anything totally new and unique to the race. Cavendish even won an edition with it in so it is not something that will automatically eliminate the sprinters.

I know, but the reason some people here want to put it back in, and why it's discussed in this topic instead of in the MSR topic, is because they want to make it harder all to give Pogacar a bigger chance to win it.

 

[AmRacer]

I know, but the reason some people here want to put it back in, and why it's discussed in this topic instead of in the MSR topic, is because they want to make it harder all to give Pogacar a bigger chance to win it.

Think you are reading people wrong there, sprinters won't be dropped and never coming back.

 

[hayneplane]

I know, but the reason some people here want to put it back in, and why it's discussed in this topic instead of in the MSR topic, is because they want to make it harder all to give Pogacar a bigger chance to win it.

The race thread should stick to discussing the race as it is set up for this year rather than sidetracking to how it might be set up differently.

There are plenty of scenarios and storylines to discuss for the 2025 edition in that thread.

Maybe a new thread should be set up to debate the future of MSR and what the best route would be.

 

[Berniece]

Think you are reading people wrong there, sprinters won't be dropped and never coming back.

Not saying otherwise, but the reason to add Manie is very obvious.

 

[scribers]

I can't agree with you on this one. It is like saying FW is exciting because we have 10 minutes of action.
There is no point in turning on the TV before the last 10 km in MSR and we have 4 hours of live coverage there.

I used to get amped up to see racing from the gun but then tv people were like “I told you so”. First two hours are all pee sprints up and down the road

 

[Netserk]

I think the Manie discussion is being viewed far too much through the lens of discussing one rider.

Manie has been in the race before from 2008-2014 so it is not adding anything totally new and unique to the race. Cavendish even won an edition with it in so it is not something that will automatically eliminate the sprinters.

Not in 2014, and wasn't ridden in 2013.

 

[Froome]

I can't agree with you on this one. It is like saying FW is exciting because we have 10 minutes of action.
There is no point in turning on the TV before the last 10 km in MSR and we have 4 hours of live coverage there.

You just want Manie to see pogacar increase the chances of winning the race, but even Manie 95 km from the finish line, will not make any difference to the race.

 

[Shortcut]

I know, but the reason some people here want to put it back in, and why it's discussed in this topic instead of in the MSR topic, is because they want to make it harder all to give Pogacar a bigger chance to win it.

If you think Pogi can win it just because of Maine, that would mean you actually think he is GOAT. Pogacar could/would never go there. Maine is like 100km from finish and after that is like 75 flat. He would've been caught easily. I hope they never add it, because people will say, if Pogi somehow wins, it's because of Maine, even if he wins because of poggio.

 

[Froome]

If you think Pogi can win it just because of Maine, that would mean you actually think he is GOAT. Pogacar could/would never go there. Maine is like 100km from finish and after that is like 75 flat. He would've been caught easily. I hope they never add it, because people will say, if Pogi somehow wins, it's because of Maine, even if he wins because of poggio.

When the GOAT merckx won 7x MSR, Manie were close to the finish line?

 

[E_F_]

When the GOAT merckx won 7x MSR, Manie were close to the finish line?

No Cipressa even, I don't think!

 

[Peyroteo94]

I think the Manie discussion is being viewed far too much through the lens of discussing one rider.

Manie has been in the race before from 2008-2014 so it is not adding anything totally new and unique to the race. Cavendish even won an edition with it in so it is not something that will automatically eliminate the sprinters.

This. Sprinters are not eliminated with Manie but MSR is way more entertaining for a long period than the current route.

 

[Peyroteo94]

If you think Pogi can win it just because of Maine, that would mean you actually think he is GOAT. Pogacar could/would never go there. Maine is like 100km from finish and after that is like 75 flat. He would've been caught easily. I hope they never add it, because people will say, if Pogi somehow wins, it's because of Maine, even if he wins because of poggio.

Don't forget some people are following cycling just recently and probably don't know what is a MSR route with Manie there.

 

[hayneplane]

Not in 2014, and wasn't ridden in 2013.

Only going on what was written in Wikipedia. If that is wrong then it’s wrong.

 

[E_F_]

Only going on what was written in Wikipedia. If that is wrong then it’s wrong.

Well it wasn't intentionally taken off the route before 2015.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Only going on what was written in Wikipedia. If that is wrong then it’s wrong.

Netserk is right. 2013 was cancelled due to heavy rain and even snow.

 

[Berniece]

If you think Pogi can win it just because of Maine, that would mean you actually think he is GOAT. Pogacar could/would never go there. Maine is like 100km from finish and after that is like 75 flat. He would've been caught easily. I hope they never add it, because people will say, if Pogi somehow wins, it's because of Maine, even if he wins because of poggio.

I don't think that at all. Others think that chances will improve, and that the only reason they want Manie added is to improve chances of Pogacar.

If Pogacar was actually the GOAT, he could do it like Merckx who won it 7 times in all possible ways.

 

[Netserk]

Well it wasn't intentionally taken off the route before 2015.

It was never meant to be ridden in 2014.

 

[scribers]

I don't think that at all. Others think that chances will improve, and that the only reason they want Manie added is to improve chances of Pogacar.

If Pogacar was actually the GOAT, he could do it like Merckx who won it 7 times in all possible ways.

I think Merckx won it one way, 7 times. That’s what bruyneel says anyway

 

[Berniece]

I think Merckx won it one way, 7 times. That’s what bruyneel says anyway

Very surprised Bruyneel says such a thing because that's just a blatant lie.

1966 => Sprint with ~20
1967 => Sprint with 4
1969 => Solo
1971 => Solo
1972 => Solo
1975 => Sprint with ~7
1976 => Solo

And those sales sometimes came from afar, and sometimes closer to the finish. Not the same at all every time.

 

[scribers]

define solos (by distance and conditions and I’ll come around to believing you over bruyneel

Because it’s quite possible to animate the race from the same point and get a variety of small differences

 

[Salvarani]

Don't forget some people are following cycling just recently and probably don't know what is a MSR route with Manie there.

That is a good point. New generation could just be discovering this race. We need to inform and educate them on the history of it.

 

[Tanakka]

If Pogacar was actually the GOAT, he could do it like Merckx who won it 7 times in all possible ways.

If Merckx was actually the GOAT, he could do it like Binda who in 1927 won 12 stages out of 15 at the Giro.

 

[Berniece]

If Merckx was actually the GOAT, he could do it like Binda who in 1927 won 12 stages out of 15 at the Giro.

Merckx at least won the Giro itself as many times as Binda. Maybe if Binda also had the palmares of Merckx there was a case to be made, but that's not really the situation now is it? It's not like Pogacar has a similar palmares as Merckx and the only thing missing is his MSR wins.