Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Salvarani]

Don't forget some people are following cycling just recently and probably don't know what is a MSR route with Manie there.

That is a good point. New generation could just be discovering this race. We need to inform and educate them on the history of it.

 

[Tanakka]

If Pogacar was actually the GOAT, he could do it like Merckx who won it 7 times in all possible ways.

If Merckx was actually the GOAT, he could do it like Binda who in 1927 won 12 stages out of 15 at the Giro.

 

[Berniece]

If Merckx was actually the GOAT, he could do it like Binda who in 1927 won 12 stages out of 15 at the Giro.

Merckx at least won the Giro itself as many times as Binda. Maybe if Binda also had the palmares of Merckx there was a case to be made, but that's not really the situation now is it? It's not like Pogacar has a similar palmares as Merckx and the only thing missing is his MSR wins.

 

[Salvarani]

If Merckx was actually the GOAT, he could do it like Binda who in 1927 won 12 stages out of 15 at the Giro.

And dont forget the legend Constante Girardengo, who won or podiumed MSR 11 times.

 

[Peyroteo94]

That is a good point. New generation could just be discovering this race. We need to inform and educate them on the history of it.

And don't even know this race was 15-20 years ago questioned about how it was a monument since it was dreadful to watch.

 

[Tanakka]

Merckx at least won the Giro itself as many times as Binda. Maybe if Binda also had the palmares of Merckx there was a case to be made, but that's not really the situation now is it?
It's not like Pogacar has a similar palmares as Merckx and the only thing missing is his MSR wins.

Nah... the point is that you cannot compare athletes from different eras.
People seem to never accept said reality because it's not fun, but to do the aforementioned thing is silly nonetheless.

55 years ago? Forget about it.
I wasn't even born and you could hardly follow the races, btw.
You cannot weigh 'palmares' 1 to 1, across half centuries.

Talent dept, specialization, and other aspects, change too much.
Binda winning 12 out of 15 stages of a GT holds no relevance in modern cycling.
The guy was obviously great, but it would simply not be feasible today.

I'm not even arguing whether Pog is better than Eddy or not, but I'm pretty convinced that nowadays it's way harder to win multiple MSRs than in Merckx's day, unless, perhaps, you win them in Zabel's fashion.

Binda-> half a century-> Merckx-> half a century-> Pogacar
I'd only compare Pog to people who competed in modern cycling,
Even better (would be) after January 2008, but ok.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Nah... the point is that you cannot compare athletes from different eras.
People seem to never accept said reality because it's not fun, but to do the aforementioned thing is silly nonetheless.

55 years ago? Forget about it.
I wasn't even born and you could hardly follow the races, btw.
You cannot weigh 'palmares' 1 to 1, across half centuries.

Talent dept, specialization, and other aspects, change too much.
Binda winning 12 out of 15 stages of a GT holds no relevance in modern cycling.
The guy was obviously great, but it would simply not be feasible today.

I'm not even arguing whether Pog is better than Eddy or not, but I'm pretty convinced that nowadays it's way harder to win multiple MSRs than in Merckx's day, unless, perhaps, you win them in Zabel's fashion.

Binda-> half a century-> Merckx-> half a century-> Pogacar
I'd only compare Pog to people who competed in modern cycling,
Even better (would be) after January 2008, but ok.

Great post. I fully agree.

 

[yaf2]

Time to rewatch key phases of last 3 years of msr and analyze what went wrong & envision the 🐐 flying on sanremo climbs in my dreams throughout this holy week of cycling

 

[Pozzovivo]

Time to rewatch key phases of last 3 years of msr and analyze what went wrong & envision the 🐐 flying on sanremo climbs in my dreams throughout this holy week of cycling

You need look no further than the complete lack of support from Ulissi, Hirschi and the other jokers.

 

[snipeheem]

Time to rewatch key phases of last 3 years of msr and analyze what went wrong & envision the 🐐 flying on sanremo climbs in my dreams throughout this holy week of cycling

I believe he have to go full blast at cipressa and then yolo

 

[yaf2]

You need look no further than the complete lack of support from Ulissi, Hirschi and the other jokers.

I think the joker is matxin. He puts a roster almost laughable for a race like sanremo. Last year he signed polit who has been doing this race every year and left him out for the ulissis and covis who cant position themselves 🤨 The key in my opinion is the calibre of riders selected for this specific race. If pog was at visma the brain of the Ned would win him this race unfortunately in uae as a rider u don't only need to be the strongest but u have to make your own tactics ☹️

 

[yaf2]

I believe he have to go full blast at cipressa and then yolo

How do u think uae should execute before and on cipressa?

 

[snipeheem]

How do u think uae should execute before and on cipressa?

Del toro, wellens , narvaez full gas on xipressa and then pog attack

 

[hayneplane]

I think the argument for adding extra obstacles to a parcours should always be on the table as after all over the years the Cipressa and Poggio have been added as a response to the race getting too easy.

I see it as the advances in equipment and nutrition along with training methods create a position that the old parcours no longer deliver the same level of exertion and challenge to the riders.

Golf is a great example here where technology meant the ball was being driven so much further off the tea that course was being outhit by even the average tour pro. Bunkers were being sailed over and lakes removed from being significant pressure points.

The response was to lengthen the holes and total course length. The cycling equivalent is to add extra climbs or sectors of rough surface such as cobbles or sterrato.

 

[Pozzovivo]

I think the joker is matxin. He puts a roster almost laughable for a race like sanremo. Last year he signed polit who has been doing this race every year and left him out for the ulissis and covis who cant position themselves 🤨 The key in my opinion is the calibre of riders selected for this specific race. If pog was at visma the brain of the Ned would win him this race unfortunately in uae as a rider u don't only need to be the strongest but u have to make your own tactics ☹️

I agree! But still, Hirschi and Ulissi will always hold back a little bit and ride for their own result. Hirschi did zero work for pog in MSR, and twice in LBL. Riding for his own top 10... Riders like that shouldn't be selected for MSR but they also fail to do a professional job when selected.

Ulissi have been one of my favorites of all time but I've barely seen him do teamwork the last 15 years. A pure opportunist (and I love it). Not selected for Giro last year for that reason probably.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Ulissi and Hirschi were useless as teammates

 

[yaf2]

Del toro, wellens , narvaez full gas on xipressa and then pog attack

In my opinion the team should have 2 roulers and 4 climbers because the way i see for pog to ride away from the vdps and gannas... is by only making the race hard before cipressa so that everyone is not fresh for cipressa. i.e polit + oliviera are i think the best in uae when it comes to positioning riders. Then deltoro narvaez and wellens are guarantees but if mcnulty is not sick from PN and is recovered he is the perfect remaining guy to have.

Interms of execution my ideal scenario is polit and olivieras job is to position the whole line of the team for capo berta and i would sacrifice deltoro to go all out sprint on berta with the team lining behind him and i'm sure he can reduce the bunch to 30 riders by doing so. Then mcnulty with his TT capabilities should be able to maintain the gap created to the dropped domestiques by riding all out on the flat till start of cipressa as a result making almost zero battle for position as teams will likely be 2 riders per team at best by then. This situation would also make cipressa harder since the 30 guys will tackle it coming with a slower speed compared to other years where they come into it like a bunch sprint.

Finally narvaez takes over from the bottom of cipressa goes all out for 1km then wellens all out 1km which will get us to the steepest part of cipressa where pog goes ballistic. After many years of thinking this is the only way i could come up with if pog is to beat vdp and ganna in msr purely on strength wise.

According to the current weather forecast its gonna be raining in saturday so this automatically takes out the poggio attack idea out of the equation cause even if you get 5 secs on top of poggio against vdp and pidcok in a wet descent its not gonna be enough.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

If you think Pogi can win it just because of Maine, that would mean you actually think he is GOAT. Pogacar could/would never go there. Maine is like 100km from finish and after that is like 75 flat. He would've been caught easily. I hope they never add it, because people will say, if Pogi somehow wins, it's because of Maine, even if he wins because of poggio.

I, for one, would like to see a Monument visit Maine, but it would be rather hard to cross the Atlantic mid race.

 

[Salvarani]

I, for one, would like to see a Monument visit Maine, but it would be rather hard to cross the Atlantic mid race.

Lobster Classic coming soon.

 

[YavorD]

I, for one, would like to see a Monument visit Maine, but it would be rather hard to cross the Atlantic mid race.

You can easily make a race Maine-Sanremo. It's only 928 kilometres long.

 

[Peyroteo94]

In my opinion the team should have 2 roulers and 4 climbers because the way i see for pog to ride away from the vdps and gannas... is by only making the race hard before cipressa so that everyone is not fresh for cipressa. i.e polit + oliviera are i think the best in uae when it comes to positioning riders. Then deltoro narvaez and wellens are guarantees but if mcnulty is not sick from PN and is recovered he is the perfect remaining guy to have.

Interms of execution my ideal scenario is polit and olivieras job is to position the whole line of the team for capo berta and i would sacrifice deltoro to go all out sprint on berta with the team lining behind him and i'm sure he can reduce the bunch to 30 riders by doing so. Then mcnulty with his TT capabilities should be able to maintain the gap created to the dropped domestiques by riding all out on the flat till start of cipressa as a result making almost zero battle for position as teams will likely be 2 riders per team at best by then. This situation would also make cipressa harder since the 30 guys will tackle it coming with a slower speed compared to other years where they come into it like a bunch sprint.

Finally narvaez takes over from the bottom of cipressa goes all out for 1km then wellens all out 1km which will get us to the steepest part of cipressa where pog goes ballistic. After many years of thinking this is the only way i could come up with if pog is to beat vdp and ganna in msr purely on strength wise.

According to the current weather forecast its gonna be raining in saturday so this automatically takes out the poggio attack idea out of the equation cause even if you get 5 secs on top of poggio against vdp and pidcok in a wet descent its not gonna be enough.

Pogacar needs roulers, not climbers. Cipressa is a 5% climb and Poggio is a 4%climb.

 

[hayneplane]

Pogacar needs roulers, not climbers. Cipressa is a 5% climb and Poggio is a 4%climb.

Peak Mikkel Bjerg would be an asset.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Peak Mikkel Bjerg would be an asset.

The perfect team is something like this:
Politt
Vermeersch
Bjerg
Narvaez
Wellens
Morgado
Pogacar

 

[yaf2]

Pogacar needs roulers, not climbers. Cipressa is a 5% climb and Poggio is a 4%climb.

I dont think u got the idea. Reducing the group significantly before cipressa is the key to execute any kind of attack on cipressa & in order to do that you need as much riders possible who can survive deltoros pace on berta thats why i said mcnulty narvaez and wellens will go from the top of berta to cipressa but if u are putting vermersh or bjerg and if they survive then most of the peleton are also surviving which makes likes of ineos,alpecin,lidl trek favourites to win battle for position and block the rode on cipressa

 

[Peyroteo94]

I dont think u got the idea. Reducing the group significantly before cipressa is the key to execute any kind of attack on cipressa & in order to do that you need as much riders possible who can survive deltoros pace on berta thats why i said mcnulty narvaez and wellens will go from the top of berta to cipressa but if u are putting vermersh or bjerg and if they survive then most of the peleton are also surviving which makes likes of ineos,alpecin,lidl trek favourites to win battle for position and block the rode on cipressa

Do you really think those climbers can rip the peloton in Berta? They need roulers to make the race hard in the last 150 km.