Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Peyroteo94]

Its not a conspiracy theory anymore when everyone could see the team bringing a B team and leaving the A team at home. Its gianneti matxin master plan to hold him from PR so that he doesn't crash in this spring. Quite the iq, quite the master plan i guess👏

For you, Laengen shouldn't be selected so who would you pick to be a better domestique and do the dirty work? Someone has to pace the race in Turchino until the first Capo.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I dont think you need both of Politt and Vermeersch. Politt has been good here and makes more sense right now.

I think the team is actually pretty well-composed, if it is Del Toro instead of McNulty.

Best of luck to Pog and chapeau to him for making this race interesting.

MSR is a race where you need a lot powerhorses to keep the pace high. Pogacar only needs Wellens, Narvaez and Del Toro to do 2,5 km before his attack in Cipressa.

 

[Red Rick]

MSR is a race where you need a lot powerhorses to keep the pace high. Pogacar only needs Wellens, Narvaez and Del Toro to do 2,5 km before his attack in Cipressa.

Do the basic math about what's more import, pace on the flat or pace on the climb.

I would take two rouleurs max. Other teams will drive the flats anyway.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Do the basic math about what's more import, pace on the flat or pace on the climb.

I would take two rouleurs max. Other teams will drive the flats anyway.

For me Wellens is tailormade to pace Cipressa and he is not a climber. You don't need climbers in 4% gradients. If they were good, they would contest TTs in those gradients and normally they lose a lot in shallow gradients (Tom killed all climbers in the first TT in the Giro 2017). Cipressa is a 9 minutes effort in shallow gradients. Guys like Mcnulty, Politt, Wellens is what UAE needs. However McNulty is not a team player so better to have Del Toro.
Even Vermeersch has been climbing very well (like we saw in SB) and should be in the team.

 

[yaf2]

For you, Laengen shouldn't be selected so who would you pick to be a better domestique and do the dirty work? Someone has to pace the race in Turchino until the first Capo.

My brother, its not up to uae to control the race or help in controlling the race because many teams including alpecin, lidl, ineos,... think msr is the only and perfect monument that suite their cxcs so they are going to control the race anyway. If u are uae u know this is the only monument where pog is not the massive favourite so u play it smart, reserve your riders for the position battle for capo berta and make the race hard from there.

 

[Froome]

For me Wellens is tailormade to pace Cipressa and he is not a climber. You don't need climbers in 4% gradients. If they were good, they would contest TTs in those gradients and normally they lose a lot in shallow gradients (Tom killed all climbers in the first TT in the Giro 2017). Cipressa is a 9 minutes effort in shallow gradients. Guys like Mcnulty, Politt, Wellens is what UAE needs. However McNulty is not a team player so better to have Del Toro.
Even Vermeersch has been climbing very well (like we saw in SB) and should be in the team.

How do you don't need climbers.....in a climb?

Who can be more faster in Cipressa? Yates, Almeida or guys like wellens?

 

[pelotonIQ]

How do you don't need climbers.....in a climb?

Who can be more faster in Cipressa? Yates, Almeida or guys like wellens?

My friend, those ''climbs'' are 3% and 4%. Is this your first MSR?

 

[Peyroteo94]

My brother, its not up to uae to control the race or help in controlling the race because many teams including alpecin, lidl, ineos,... think msr is the only and perfect monument that suite their cxcs so they are going to control the race anyway. If u are uae u know this is the only monument where pog is not the massive favourite so u play it smart, reserve your riders for the position battle for capo berta and make the race hard from there.

Dirty work is not only pacing the peloton for hours. There is always a guy who needs to bring water for his teammates, protect Pogacar in the front all day, trying to avoid crashes and being a fantastic shield, taking all the wind with him.
I'm more worried about Novak to be honest.

 

[Froome]

My friend, those ''climbs'' are 3% and 4%. Is this your first MSR?

And so what? Even on a 4% climb yates or almeida are faster than guys like wellens.

 

[pelotonIQ]

And so what? Even on a 4% climb yates or almeida are faster than guys like wellens.

Pog needs domestiques that can drop watt bombs, pure climbers such as Almeida & Yates don't have that explosiveness. They're not useful for what UAE are planning.

 

[Froome]

Pog needs domestiques that can drop watt bombs, pure climbers such as Almeida & Yates don't have that explosiveness. They're not useful for what UAE are planning.

They can't do in less than 9 min without those guys.

 

[pelotonIQ]

They can't do in less than 9 min without those guys.

Only Pog that is gonna do it in less than 9 min. The others are there to set an infernal pace.

 

[Shortcut]

Only Pog that is gonna do it in less than 9 min. The others are there to set an infernal pace.

That talk about under 9min on Cipressa is worthless. Even if Pogi goes somehow alone, he needs a 45 (never ever) seconds on top of Cipressa to bring it home (still not enough). There is 9km flat between Cipressa and Poggio, peloton would get him in those 9km and after that he still somehow needs to go nuclear on Poggio?. If we are talking Wellens, Del Toro and Narvaez going under 9min on Cipressa with 20-25 guys in peloton i can get behind this idea, but it is still to crazy. Also Wellens needs to be so strong to keep this group so small till Poggio. After that Del Toro and Narvaez still strong enough to do lead out for Pogi, And Pogi needs to gain 20 seconds after that against MvDP just on Poggio? It is just toooo complicated-don't get my wrong i hope they try.

 

[pelotonIQ]

That talk about under 9min on Cipressa is worthless. Even if Pogi goes somehow alone, he needs a 45 (never ever) seconds on top of Cipressa to bring it home (still not enough). There is 9km flat between Cipressa and Poggio, peloton would get him in those 9km and after that he still somehow needs to go nuclear on Poggio?. If we are talking Wellens, Del Toro and Narvaez going under 9min on Cipressa with 20-25 guys in peloton i can get behind this idea, but it is still to crazy. Also Wellens needs to be so strong to keep this group so small till Poggio. After that Del Toro and Narvaez still strong enough to do lead out for Pogi, And Pogi needs to gain 20 seconds after that against MvDP just on Poggio? It is just toooo complicated-don't get my wrong i hope they try.

Pog has proven time and time again that he can go solo and it would require a big effort and coordingation between teams to bring him back.

 

[scribers]

@mou is bullish on ciciban race this year

He’s tracking tailwinds like his life depended on it. Cipressa stomp and wings to the finish

 

[Shortcut]

Pog has proven time and time again that he can go solo and it would require a big effort and coordingation between teams to bring him back.

Not really for that kind of race. He lost last year MSR and Quebec trying to go solo. You can't compare those kind of races with SB, GdL, Montreal or LBL.

 

[pelotonIQ]

Not really for that kind of race. He lost last year MSR and Quebec trying to go solo. You can't compare those kind of races with SB, GBL, Montreal or LBL.

Going solo is his only win condition, do you think he outsprints JP or MvDP if he waits until the sprint? Now the 2024 MSR you mentioned he attacked on the last bit of Poggio and in your previous post you was talking about Cipressa scenarios which is what my response was aimed at and now you've switched to Poggio, Make up your mind.

 

[Shortcut]

Going solo is his only win condition, do you think he outsprints JP or MvDP if he waits until the sprint? Now the 2024 MSR you mentioned he attacked on the last bit of Poggio and in your previous post you was talking about Cipressa scenarios which is what my response was aimed at and now you've switched to Poggio, Make up your mind.

i explained why talking about 9min on cipressa where Pogi goes alone is worthless. Than you came with his solos which are totally irrelevant as reference for those kind of races (MSR, Quebec). I will put simple for you-Pogi can never win going solo on Cipressa. Him having advantage 45s on top of Cipressa (again not possible) would be too small. Still I want him to try.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Pog has proven time and time again that he can go solo and it would require a big effort and coordingation between teams to bring him back.

To be honest, he never showed he can go solo in MSR. He is trying to go but MVP has been too strong.

 

[Salvarani]

To be honest, he never showed he can go solo in MSR. He is trying to go but MVP has been too strong.

Ideally he would have needed a little bit more steepness somewhere.

He can still get away, if he times it really well. That they hesitate. But it is hard when everybody is just anticipating and waiting for it in this race, as the climbs are not hard or very long. Especially when a rider like MVDP also dedicates himself to not let him get away and makes sure on his own to close every attack here. It would be cool if they both go solo together and battle each other.

 

[Peyroteo94]

That talk about under 9min on Cipressa is worthless. Even if Pogi goes somehow alone, he needs a 45 (never ever) seconds on top of Cipressa to bring it home (still not enough). There is 9km flat between Cipressa and Poggio, peloton would get him in those 9km and after that he still somehow needs to go nuclear on Poggio?. If we are talking Wellens, Del Toro and Narvaez going under 9min on Cipressa with 20-25 guys in peloton i can get behind this idea, but it is still to crazy. Also Wellens needs to be so strong to keep this group so small till Poggio. After that Del Toro and Narvaez still strong enough to do lead out for Pogi, And Pogi needs to gain 20 seconds after that against MvDP just on Poggio? It is just toooo complicated-don't get my wrong i hope they try.

If Pogacar does an under 9 minutes effort in Cipressa, the peloton will be in pieces. His attack will probably happen in the middle of Cipressa so he has 2 km to gain 30 seconds. This is possible due to lack of coordination in the second group and domestiques will be tired after being dropped. I think Pogacar can hold off the peloton (30 seconds gap) if he really destroys Cipressa.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

If Pogacar does an under 9 minutes effort in Cipressa, the peloton will be in pieces. His attack will probably happen in the middle of Cipressa so he has 2 km to gain 30 seconds. This is possible due to lack of coordination in the second group and domestiques will be tired after being dropped. I think Pogacar can hold off the peloton (30 seconds gap) if he really destroys Cipressa.

He may stay ahead of the peleton on the flat section indeed but how will it affect his level in the finale? (Poggio ascent + descent + finish). He will surely have less in tank than his main rivals there and will be vulnerable. Well, maybe we will see what will happen in 3 days if he tries!

 

[Peyroteo94]

He may stay ahead of the peleton on the flat section indeed but how will it affect his level in the finale? (Poggio ascent + descent + finish). He will surely have less in tank than his main rivals there and will be vulnerable. Well, maybe we will see what will happen in 3 days if he tries!

No, he won't. If Pogacar drops everybody, it means his rivals are tired so they will not climb Poggio much faster than him. MSR is a very easy race so he can definitely race 22 km solo without running out of energy. He is used to 40/50 km solos.

 

[Peyroteo94]

No one gets dropped in a crucial part of the race just because they don't care. If somehow Pogacar is alone, it is because no one was able to follow him.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

No, he won't. If Pogacar drops everybody, it means his rivals are tired so they will not climb Poggio much faster than him. MSR is a very easy race so he can definitely race 22 km solo without running out of energy. He is used to 40/50 km solos.

They will not have to be much faster than him on Poggio. First of all, I don't believe it will be as much as 30 seconds gap. Plus, staying ahead on the flat will be more difficult for him (even if he's better uphill) so his advantage before the finale will be minimal. So there's a good chance that a few best guys from the chasers will catch him (not necessarily a large group), maybe on Poggio maybe even later.