Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[JoãoRamos]

It is an expectation that you and those people are putting on Van der Poel because he has never said that he wants to be the best classics rider of his era, he has already stated his goals, having the record for most Flanders wins and winning the MTB Worlds, its as simple as that. Now contrast that to Pogacar that has said that he wants to become the best rider ever.

As I said, you are entitled to think that Pogacar is a better classics rider than Van der Poel but you will have to live with the fact that the Dutchman is also one of the best classics riders ever.

Yes, he is.

But he is not the best classics rider of his generation.

 

[scribers]

If he beats Pogi next weekend you have to look at that result on top of other results this season and some looking backward as it unfolds. It makes little sense to declare things before they happen. Then we have to delete our accounts if we made such bets like our twitter comrade (you know who).

 

[Arvid Falk]

MVP can't compete in LBL or GdL. He got a third but I can say 10 names who were better than him in LBL.
He is the best rider when we talk about the period between MSR and PR. Pogacar is his biggest rival during this period even if these races don't suit him very well. Aside this period, Pogacar is a king without rivals.

In GdL he can't compete, in LBL he can if he were solely focused on it which he isn't. When he rode LBL last year it was the last race in a long spring campaign where his man focus was on peaking for RVV and PR and which he won.

Sure, Pog and Remco are just too strong in LBL, but beside them he could challenge the others. In 2020 he came in 6th place. The day before he won 50k solo in BinckBank tour. Last year he came 3rd in Worlds on a course with over 4400m in accumulated elevation. My point is he is not so limited as you suggest, he can ride well on LBL-like courses also.

But he has also been very honest about LBL and GdL, he is just to heavy to fight for a win in these races in an era with riders like Pog and Remco. He knows his strenghts and rides races that suits him the most. And why shouldn't he?

 

[Peyroteo94]

In GdL he can't compete, in LBL he can if he were solely focused on it which he isn't. When he rode LBL last year it was the last race in a long spring campaign where his man focus was on peaking for RVV and PR and which he won.

Sure, Pog and Remco are just too strong in LBL, but beside them he could challenge the others. In 2020 he came in 6th place. The day before he won 50k solo in BinckBank tour. Last year he came 3rd in Worlds on a course with over 4400m in accumulated elevation. My point is he is not so limited as you suggest, he can ride well on LBL-like courses also.

But he has also been very honest about LBL and GdL, he is just to heavy to fight for a win in these races in an era with riders like Pog and Remco. He knows his strenghts and rides races that suits him the most. And why shouldn't he?

LBL is way harder than what they had in Zurich because the second part of the race is full of climbs. The circuit in Zurich wasn't tough (the toughest climb in the race was out of the final circuit).
The problem is MVP got 3rd because Pogi was in the race. If he wasn't, MVP would finish outside of the top 10.

 

[yaco]

I hope that MVDP wins Flanders and Pogi wins PR. Then we can end this endless and pointless debate.

 

[JoãoRamos]

If he beats Pogi next weekend you have to look at that result on top of other results this season and some looking backward as it unfolds. It makes little sense to declare things before they happen. Then we have to delete our accounts if we made such bets like our twitter comrade (you know who).

But I am not betting.

Even if Pogi loses next week, he is 26. By the end of their careers, Pogi will be for sure the best classics rider of his generation.

He can and he will win more than 15 monuments. I doubt VDP can surpass.

 

[scribers]

Oh man. Curses must follow you around. How do you bring this onto pogi??

 

[Arvid Falk]

LBL is way harder than what they had in Zurich because the second part of the race is full of climbs. The circuit in Zurich wasn't tough (the toughest climb in the race was out of the final circuit).
The problem is MVP got 3rd because Pogi was in the race. If he wasn't, MVP would finish outside of the top 10.

So you are confident that if MVDP goes all in for LBL he would not reach top 10 if Pog and Remco where not riding?

I disagree.

And don't worry Pog would still be goat if MVDP got podium in LBL in the absence of Pog...

 

[JoãoRamos]

Oh man. Curses must follow you around. How do you bring this onto pogi??

Curses do not exist (yo no creo en brujas, pero que las hay, las hay) haha

Pogi won't be denied by no curse whatsoever.

 

[Peyroteo94]

So you are confident that if MVDP goes all in for LBL he would not reach top 10 if Pog and Remco where not riding?

I disagree.

And don't worry Pog would still be goat if MVDP got podium in LBL in the absence of Pog...

No but I am 100% sure he would not fight for the win.

 

[Ripper]

I doubt that my friend.

He can say whatever he wants, but deep down inside, I think he cares.

LOL. You are projecting your values something fierce here. Van der Poel makes choices and is getting more and more selective to hit the goals he wants to make ... MTBs worlds, the northern monuments, etc. You keep on shifting your argument. What "other people" say (OK, fair enough, and they could have opinions that are wildly different than yours, and also have incorrect facts) vs. what van der Poel wants or thinks (no facts to support he wants to be the best at all the classics, or that he is better than Pogacar)

 

[Arvid Falk]

No but I am 100% sure he would not fight for the win.

100 % sure? Really? He doesn't stand a chance against Pidcock, Healy, van Gils, Skjelmose, Carapaz, etc. I don't buy it, not favorite sure, but no chance at all of winning? Think you are downplaying MVDP's capabilites too much here. But I won't go on about this, MVDP himself has said that he won't aim for LBL so we will never find out about this.

 

[JoãoRamos]

LOL. You are projecting your values something fierce here. Van der Poel makes choices and is getting more and more selective to hit the goals he wants to make ... MTBs worlds, the northern monuments, etc. You keep on shifting your argument. What "other people" say (OK, fair enough, and they could have opinions that are wildly different than yours, and also have incorrect facts) vs. what van der Poel wants or thinks (no facts to support he wants to be the best at all the classics, or that he is better than Pogacar)

This is called having an opinion my friend.

You cannot say for sure he doesn't want to be the best classics rider of his generation.

What he says can be different from what he really thinks.

So, all of this, is pure speculation, and we can have our opinions and have a healthy debate.

I think this is the main goal of being a member of a forum, right?

 

[James M]

MvdP might be the best cobble classic rider of all time(by stats, entries, lvl), if not arguably one of them. And he just might be able to hang on to Pogacar and win the sprint in what is referred to as his home soil kinda race relative to Pogi. I think that says enough about Pogacar—the rest is self-explanatory.

Needless to say, Pogacar has a monumental challenge ahead of him. See what I did there. Yes, I'm the GOAT. They both deserve the utmost respect, btw—if not, people are doing something wrong.

 

[scribers]

Oude Pogimont

How do you guys like it? Someone smarter than me came up with it.

 

[JoãoRamos]

MvdP might be the best cobble classic rider of all time(by stats, entries, lvl), if not arguably one of them. And he just might be able to hang on to Pogacar and win the sprint in what is referred to as his home soil kinda race relative to Pogi. I think that says enough about Pogacar—the rest is self-explanatory.

Needless to say, Pogacar has a monumental challenge ahead of him. See what I did there. Yes, I'm the GOAT. They both deserve the utmost respect, btw—if not, people are doing something wrong.

For me, Pog is the undisputed king of hilly classics, while Van der Poel reigns over the flatter ones.

Yet, Pog is increasingly encroaching on VDP’s territory, whereas VDP hesitates to challenge Pog on his own.

 

[scribers]

For me, Pog is the undisputed king of hilly classics, while Van der Poel reigns over the flatter ones.

Yet, Pog is increasingly encroaching on VDP’s territory, whereas VDP hesitates to challenge Pog on his own.

The decisive battleground is Flanders. The biggest race of the year!

 

[JoãoRamos]

Oude Pogimont

How do you guys like it? Someone smarter than me came up with it.

Do you think Pog can win RVV 4 times?

Because if he can, while denying VDP, maybe Oude Pogimont can be a reality haha

 

[JoãoRamos]

The decisive battleground is Flanders. The biggest race of the year!

UAE must control the race from the beginning and make it as hard as possible. No mercy

 

[scribers]

Do you think Pog can win RVV 4 times?

Because if he can, while denying VDP, maybe Oude Pogimont can be a reality haha

He can and he has to

 

[AmRacer]

Do you think Pog can win RVV 4 times?

Because if he can, while denying VDP, maybe Oude Pogimont can be a reality haha

Don't know how often he will race it. Mathieu doing RVV every year.

 

[Shortcut]

Pogi is the best classic rider of this generation. MvDP is the best cobble classic rider ever.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Pogi is the best classic rider of this generation. MvDP is the best cobble classic rider ever.

This. MVP doesn't have the palmares of Boonen but he is way more complete.

 

[James M]

For me, Pog is the undisputed king of hilly classics, while Van der Poel reigns over the flatter ones.

Yet, Pog is increasingly encroaching on VDP’s territory, whereas VDP hesitates to challenge Pog on his own.

Pogacar's versatility and dominance are undeniable obviously, he is the ultimate apex predator, noone comes even close. However, it’s also fair to point out that he simply hasn’t raced these types of cobble classics often enough or won them as consistently yet. That makes the comparison a bit premature in those terms.

 

[James M]

When it comes to finding someone to tackle him, you’d struggle to name a better opponent than MvdP throughout history. His prowess on cobbles is almost unmatched, and that deserves respect—that's my only point. That being said, I still think it’s not enough, and that Pogacar is just going to ride away, especially in any form of attritional dynamic, he has reached a comical level and MvdP even will be mice meat in said dynamic, and that says it all dosent it. Even if Pogacar is encroaching on his territory.