Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[scribers]

Yes, but the reason the "superpeak method" is used is because most cyclists are relatively not very competitive for some races no matter if they peak for it or not. So those who superpeak would rather do it for one event, than waste their time peaking for something they know they wont be competitive enough.

Like Vingegaard could prepare an entire year just for Paris-Roubaix and he wouldnt break top 30.

I think we are saying the same thing with a different number of words.

 

[Peyroteo94]

This is very true as well. This is a big part of why his recovery is so good. Its that he needs to strain his body less than others to be competitive.

In hilly classics we never see Pogacar going to his limits like he did in PR.
His LBL 2024 win is perfect example of that. Go hard for 5/10 km and then zone 2 ride until the finish.

 

[Sciatic]

Why is it a difficult race? Recovery isn't a problem for Pogacar. That is his main strenght compared to his classics rivals. I'm sure he will go hard on training tomorrow.

Idont know about it in the current era of super-recovery, but it used to be considered a taxing race because of all the tight turns and short climbs starting from almost standstill.

 

[scribers]

Pogacar is the extreme because he is a high level throughout and can win big races when not in a traditional ‘peak’ per se - but i don’t agree that we have not seen riders consistently well at a high level throughout seasons - just their level is never at a specialisation to win a tour or good enough to win tours. It is purely some grand tour specialists who since Armstrong tended to focus on June/ July.

Plenty of sprinters have been consistently great at winning races of their capabilities throughout a year, Cancellara was pretty consistent throughout the year, Gilbert, Valverde others etc

Remco and Van Aert (until last 2 years) are super competitive whenever they compete
Th
Pog is however unique as a throwback in that he is capable of winning all types of races

Point taken on sprinters. The do tend to always be at the ready and the wins frequently reflect this. the example by cookster of Valverde is another good one and outlier.

I do take exception to Remco as he typically has a handful of races he just doesn't 'show up' to when he's there. Such as P-N last year. He was wonky in the vuelta two years ago. Seemed to hold form between the tour + olympics and maybe sagged a bit for Lombardia. He crashes with great cause so much, we don't have reliable data.

 

[Sciatic]

In hilly classics we never see Pogacar going to his limits like he did in PR.
His LBL 2024 win is perfect example of that. Go hard for 5/10 km and then zone 2 ride until the finish.

True, even yesterday he looked better (aside from disappointment) at the finish area than many of the other riders.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Idont know about it in the current era of super-recovery, but it used to be considered a taxing race because of all the tight turns and short climbs starting from almost standstill.

Not a problem for a guy like Pogacar. He is always in the right place. It will be sunny day in Valkenburg on Sunday so perfect conditions for a good training.

 

[Sciatic]

Not a problem for a guy like Pogacar. He is always in the right place. It will be sunny day in Valkenburg on Sunday so perfect conditions for a good training.

I think you’re right about Sunday.

 

[Sciatic]

Point taken on sprinters. The do tend to always be at the ready and the wins frequently reflect this. the example by cookster of Valverde is another good one and outlier.

I do take exception to Remco as he typically has a handful of races he just doesn't 'show up' to when he's there. Such as P-N last year. He was wonky in the vuelta two years ago. Seemed to hold form between the tour + olympics and maybe sagged a bit for Lombardia. He crashes with great cause so much, we don't have reliable data.

Hard to top Nibali in that regard!

 

[Peyroteo94]

I think you’re right about Sunday.

And there is a part of me that is very curious to see Pogacar in Mur de Huy again. So missing AGR and FW would be a big disappointment for me.

 

[pastronef]

And there is a part of me that is very curious to see Pogacar in Mur de Huy again. So missing AGR and FW would be a big disappointment for me.

I don't think ASO pays him an entry fee, but maybe AGR does

 

[hayneplane]

Hard to top Nibali in that regard!

Geraint Thomas could!

 

[Cycling111]

I'm a little disappointed that Van der Poel isn't going to the Ardennes. Liège is difficult for him, but San Remo isn't easy for Pog, and he's going, Roubaix too.
And Van der Poel won Amstel.
I see a lot of comments justifying hisn´t going, but if Pogacar doesn't win Roubaix on his first attempt, he's discredited. And even winning 2/3 Flanders is also understimated by excuses and asterisks

Some complain about the debate about Pogacar can be the GOAT. I don't like that debate either. I think it's something that will have to be considered when he retires.

But when you see that difference of opinion,VDP shouldn't go to Amstel because he's not guaranteed to win, but Pog wins Flanders and has asterisks, you realize that these same people are the ones initiating the debate about whether Pogacar can be the best.
When the difference in criteria and demands for criticism is so great, you are indirectly they are opening that debate

The same thing happens with Vingegaard, he´s only required to compete in TDF, while Pogacar wins a fourth Liège and you read comments about asterisks because Remco was tired .


Personally, I'm sad that Van der Poel isn't going to Amstel or Liège. I like him. It's difficult to him, but someone like him who no longer has a calendar should take on the challenge like Pogacar does with Roubaix.

 

[Cycling111]

Yes, but the reason the "superpeak method" is used is because most cyclists are relatively not very competitive for some races no matter if they peak for it or not. So those who superpeak would rather do it for one event, than waste their time peaking for something they know they wont be competitive enough.

Like Vingegaard could prepare an entire year just for Paris-Roubaix and he wouldnt break top 30.

It's not just strength; there are countless Tour de France winners who have been terrible on the cobbles, like Froome.

I adored Pantani, but just imagining him on the cobbles gives me nightmares .

Contador was another terribly rider at cobbles.

Vingegaard won the 2022 Tour de France, he was in great shape, and the difference between him and Pogacar in cobbles was obvious. I can't imagine Vingegaard attacking in Roubaix.

Pogacar's talent is underrated because he obviously doesn't have Van der Poel's tecnic, not even other Roubaix winners had it, but Pogacar´s ability on the cobbles is incredible for a TDF winner.

 

[Peyroteo94]

It's not just strength; there are countless Tour de France winners who have been terrible on the cobbles, like Froome.

I adored Pantani, but just imagining him on the cobbles gives me nightmares .

Contador was another terribly rider at cobbles.

Vingegaard won the 2022 Tour de France, he was in great shape, and the difference between him and Pogacar in cobbles was obvious. I can't imagine Vingegaard attacking in Roubaix.

Pogacar's talent is underrated because he obviously doesn't have Van der Poel's tecnic, not even other Roubaix winners had it, but Pogacar´s ability on the cobbles is incredible for a TDF winner.

Pogacar is good on the cobbles because he has infinite power. Froome did very well in the Tour 2015. In 2014 he crashed before the cobbles.

 

[Sciatic]

I'm a little disappointed that Van der Poel isn't going to the Ardennes. Liège is difficult for him, but San Remo isn't easy for Pog, and he's going, Roubaix too.
And Van der Poel won Amstel.
I see a lot of comments justifying hisn´t going, but if Pogacar doesn't win Roubaix on his first attempt, he's discredited. And even winning 2/3 Flanders is also understimated by excuses and asterisks

Some complain about the debate about Pogacar can be the GOAT. I don't like that debate either. I think it's something that will have to be considered when he retires.

But when you see that difference of opinion,VDP shouldn't go to Amstel because he's not guaranteed to win, but Pog wins Flanders and has asterisks, you realize that these same people are the ones initiating the debate about whether Pogacar can be the best.
When the difference in criteria and demands for criticism is so great, you are indirectly they are opening that debate

The same thing happens with Vingegaard, he´s only required to compete in TDF, while Pogacar wins a fourth Liège and you read comments about asterisks because Remco was tired .


Personally, I'm sad that Van der Poel isn't going to Amstel or Liège. I like him. It's difficult to him, but someone like him who no longer has a calendar should take on the challenge like Pogacar does with Roubaix.

I think we all recognize what a uniquely, almost absurdly, talented rider Pogacar is. When someone is that far off the curve of normal then perhaps he is not a good comparison regarding choices other riders make. Should all the top GC guys ride(and ride them to win) the GIRO-Tour double because Pogacar handled it so easily last year? MVDP has arranged his schedule similar to how the best cobbled classics riders have done in the past, by taking a break after P-R. Add in the fact that he also rode a cross season and it seems quite fitting. Yeah, it’s still disappointing as a fan, we always want to see the best riders in the best races.

 

[Cycling111]

Pogacar is good on the cobbles because he has infinite power. Froome did very well in the Tour 2015. In 2014 he crashed before the cobbles.

Yes, but with power alone he wouldn't be second in Roubaix.
Many Tour winners have had power, and I can't imagine them achieving this PR.

Ganna has incredible power, but his weaknesses are noticeable on the cobbles. In E3, he lost a lot on the cobbles and recovered on the road.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Yes, but with power alone he wouldn't be second in Roubaix.
Many Tour winners have had power, and I can't imagine them achieving this PR.

Ganna has incredible power, but his weaknesses are noticeable on the cobbles. In E3, he lost a lot on the cobbles and recovered on the road.

Ganna doesn't have enough endurance. MSR is a zone 1 ride for 260 km before Cipressa.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I still remember when Ganna got destroyed in Aremberg a couple years ago

 

[Cycling111]

I read a really crazy thing on X.

Of the riders who won 5 Tours, Hinault was the one who didn't win for 2 years and thenwon again. Pogacar hasn't won for two years and won the Tour again.

VDP is the second rider after Moser to win 3 consecutive PR. Hinault lost his first 3 PR against Moser.
Hinault finally won PR against Moser in 1981. Moser was 31, Hinault 27.

How old will VDP and Pogacar be in the next edition?

Stupid coincidences. It wouldn't be Pogacar's fourth Roubaix, and other things don't match up, but I found funny the coincidence of the 3 consecutive Roubaix of their rivals.
Pogacar is quite similar to Hinault, so for his sake I hope they don't resemble each other by not winning San Remo

 

[Peyroteo94]

I read a really crazy thing on X.

Of the riders who won 5 Tours, Hinault was the one who didn't win for 2 years and thenwon again. Pogacar hasn't won for two years and won the Tour again.

VDP is the second rider after Moser to win 3 consecutive PR. Hinault lost his first 3 PR against Moser.
Hinault finally won PR against Moser in 1981. Moser was 31, Hinault 27.

How old will VDP and Pogacar be in the next edition?

Stupid coincidences. It wouldn't be Pogacar's fourth Roubaix, and other things don't match up, but I found funny the coincidence of the 3 consecutive Roubaix of their rivals.
Pogacar is quite similar to Hinault, so for his sake I hope they don't resemble each other by not winning San Remo

He needs to win PR and MSR in the next 2 years. If not, I don't believe he will do it anymore.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

He needs to win PR and MSR in the next 2 years. If not, I don't believe he will do it anymore.

Really, no chance anymore with 29? Also, ignoring the results which were great, it does not seem like he's a typical early bloomer.

 

[scribers]

He’s not stopping the 5 monuments until he hits 19

 

[Sciatic]

I read a really crazy thing on X.

Of the riders who won 5 Tours, Hinault was the one who didn't win for 2 years and thenwon again. Pogacar hasn't won for two years and won the Tour again.

VDP is the second rider after Moser to win 3 consecutive PR. Hinault lost his first 3 PR against Moser.
Hinault finally won PR against Moser in 1981. Moser was 31, Hinault 27.

How old will VDP and Pogacar be in the next edition?

Stupid coincidences. It wouldn't be Pogacar's fourth Roubaix, and other things don't match up, but I found funny the coincidence of the 3 consecutive Roubaix of their rivals.
Pogacar is quite similar to Hinault, so for his sake I hope they don't resemble each other by not winning San Remo

The difference re: the Tours is that Hinault didn’t lose in 83 after his first 4 wins: injury kept him from even starting. which opened the door for the previously unheralded “professor” to win in 83-84.

 

[scribers]

Speaking of Hinault. I don’t know if he has a history of particularly liking riders, and I know he tangles with a number of them. But he seems to genuinely adore pogacar. Really is an advocate of this style of racing we’re seeing.

 

[pastronef]

in a post race video he and Vermeersch both say "we'll come back"