Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

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Rou

Mar 20, 2024
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Personally, I want him to do the Vuelta but I have the feeling he will skip it again. In my opinion Pog's recovery capacity is overrated and not as good for example as 2023 Vingegaard. In 2023 Jonas had 67 race days. He was on super hard level all year and could have won the Vuelta if not for team politics.
If Pog misses the Vuelta again this year he will have around only 50 race days which is a joke.
 
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Peyroteo94

Peyroteo94

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Rou said:
Personally, I want him to do the Vuelta but I have the feeling he will skip it again. In my opinion Pog's recovery capacity is overrated and not as good for example as 2023 Vingegaard. In 2023 Jonas had 67 race days. He was on super hard level all year and could have won the Vuelta if not for team politics.
If Pog misses the Vuelta again this year he will have around only 50 race days which is a joke.
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Vingegaard was gifted a free ride multiple times with Roglic not being able to respond. I still think without team politics, Roglics wins that Vuelta.
 
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Salvarani

Oct 15, 2017
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Peyroteo94 said:
We already had this discussion but do you really think Pogacar should wait until 2029 to win the Vuelta?
Following your favorite schedule for Pogacar, he only could target the Vuelta when the WC route is not good for him.
So it will be only in 2029.
2025 - WC in Kigali
2026 - WC in Montreal, probably a course tailormade for him.
2027 - WC in the French Alps. We already know the course so another WC tailormade for him.
2028 - Tour and then ORR finishing in Venice beach. I believe we will have a route good for puncheurs/climbers.
2029 - The only year he can fight for Tour-Vuelta because worlds will be in Danmark
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I havent said that, which means you have always missed the point.

I just think it would be dumb to try do everything in one year. Classics (all monuments), Tour, Vuelta and WC.

Since it is kind of given he is going to do Tour for the forseeable future and WC... it only leaves skipping the classics (cobbles), like last year, or skip a second GT imo. Something gotta give.

Given the schedule and tough battle he is facing... MVDP (cobbles), Remco (hilly monuments + WC) and Vinge (Tour)... it is already more than enough this season.

It would be incredibly dumb to do the Vuelta this season imo.

Doing UAE Tour has already added on enough, than what was necessary.

He should skip classics (cobbles); if he wants to race two GTs. Like last season.

Since he done cobbles... he should skip a second GT this season, imo.

Whatever happens next few seasons I have no idea. He can go for Tour + Vuelta before 2029, but he should then just skip the cobbles if so. Or just do the Giro-Vuelta at some point, later.
 
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Rou

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Peyroteo94 said:
Vingegaard was gifted a free ride multiple times with Roglic not being able to respond. I still think without team politics, Roglics wins that Vuelta.
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I disagree. Vingegaard on Javalambre in the first week when he had his stomach issues and was at his weakest was still able to catch Roglic. Roglic also could have been stronger in other stages but we wouldn't know.
 
Peyroteo94

Peyroteo94

Mar 20, 2022
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Salvarani said:
I havent said that, which means you have always missed the point.

I just think it would be dumb to try do everything in one year. Classics (all monuments), Tour, Vuelta and WC.

Since it is kind of given he is going to do Tour for the forseeable future and WC... it only leaves skipping the classics (cobbles), like last year, or skip a second GT imo. Something gotta give.

Given the schedule and tough battle he is facing... MVDP (cobbles), Remco (hilly monuments + WC) and Vinge (Tour)... it is already more than enough this season.

It would be incredibly dumb to do the Vuelta this season imo.

Doing UAE Tour has already added on enough, than what was necessary.

He should skip classics (cobbles); if he wants to race two GTs. Like last season.

Since he done cobbles... he should skip a second GT this season, imo.

Whatever happens next few seasons I have no idea. He can go for Tour + Vuelta before 2029, but he should then just skip the cobbles if so. Or just do the Giro-Vuelta at some point, later.
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Ok, so I don't agree with you. He will not skip cobbled classics until he wins PR. I think Vuelta 2025 is very easy and tailormade for him.
 
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Peyroteo94

Peyroteo94

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Rou said:
I disagree. Vingegaard on Javalambre in the first week when he had his stomach issues and was at his weakest was still able to catch Roglic. Roglic also could have been stronger in other stages but we wouldn't know.
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So it is silly to say Vingegaard 2023 had a better recovery than Pogacar 2024. Vingegaard was vulnerable in the Vuelta and far from his level in the Tour. On the other hand, Pogacar showed a level in the Tour never seen before and after doing the Giro.
 
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Salvarani

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Pog has four alternatives imo on how to structure his main targets.

1: MSR, Ronde, PR, LBL, Tour, WC and Lombardia. (this season)

2: MSR, LBL, Giro, Tour, WC and Lombardia. (last season)

3. MSR, LBL, Giro, Vuelta, WC and Lombardia. (potentially in the future)

4. MSR, LBL, Tour, Vuelta, WC and Lombardia. (potentially in the future)

I think either of those are achievable and not spreading himself thin.
 
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Rechtschreibfehler

Rechtschreibfehler

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Salvarani said:
Thats fine.

Until he wins PR, if he will continue to race them every year, he should not go Vuelta then imo.

Dont care about that. He can win Vuelta on any route. That doesnt matter at all whatsoever.
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But what's your reasoning, that he should not do the Vuelta? Or why doing the cobbles should mean not doing a second GT? This years WC is a climbers course, the next ones will be good or even perfect for him as well. If he comes to a climbers course with GT weight, who exactly is going to beat him? Especially if Vingegaard is doing the Vuelta as well. Hell what about Remco btw.? Is he considering doing the Vuelta as well?
 
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Salvarani

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Rechtschreibfehler said:
But what's your reasoning, that he should not do the Vuelta? Or why doing the cobbles should mean not doing a second GT? This years WC is a climbers course, the next ones will be good or even perfect for him as well. If he comes to a climbers course with GT weight, who exactly is going to beat him? Especially if Vingegaard is doing the Vuelta as well. Hell what about Remco btw.? Is he considering doing the Vuelta as well?
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I think it is dumb to do everything in one year and he needs to skip something.
 
YavorD

YavorD

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Salvarani said:
Thats fine.

Until he wins PR, if he will continue to race them every year, he should not go Vuelta then imo.

Dont care about that. He can win Vuelta on any route. That doesnt matter at all whatsoever.
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He is NOT gonna be able to win the Vuelta on any route forever.
Sooner or later either by his declining or others improving the gap will be smaller than it is and by 2028 he MAY not be the main favourite for a GT. You never know.
 
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Rechtschreibfehler

Rechtschreibfehler

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Salvarani said:
I think it is dumb to do everything in one year and he needs to skip something.
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But why is it dumb if it can be done? Given how many WC routes are going his way the next years, I think he can "risk" it. Also, he does want to compete with Merckx historically. When is he supposed to win all those GTs if he only ever does 2 every 3 or 4 seasons?
 
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Peyroteo94

Peyroteo94

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Salvarani said:
Thats fine.

Until he wins PR, if he will continue to race them every year, he should not go Vuelta then imo.

Dont care about that. He can win Vuelta on any route. That doesnt matter at all whatsoever.
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I think you are underestimating the importance of winning the Vuelta and win all GTs and things in cycling change really quickly. PR is a must for him, I know he said that in the heat of the moment but that hug and conversation with Veermersch, saying "we will comeback", showed to me he wants to be there next year.
He will not be the top GT rider forever and he is not immune to bad luck. Bernal broke his collarbone and ended up winning the Tour because of that (Froome "ended" his career in a TT recon in the same year.
 
MerkantilMerch

MerkantilMerch

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I think Jumbo is severely undercooking Vingegaard to play into his strengths which is top shape in end of 2nd and 3rd week of TdF. And then Vuelta.

And then try to do something good in WC.
 
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Salvarani

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Rechtschreibfehler said:
But why is it dumb if it can be done? Given how many WC routes are going his way the next years, I think he can do it. Also, he does want to compete with Merckx historically. When is he supposed to win all those GTs if he only ever does 2 every 3 or 4 seasons?
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Alternating between these is what I believe and think are best.

1: MSR, Ronde, PR, LBL, Tour, WC and Lombardia. (this season)

2: MSR, LBL, Giro, Tour, WC and Lombardia. (last season)

3. MSR, LBL, Giro, Vuelta, WC and Lombardia. (potentially in the future)

4. MSR, LBL, Tour, Vuelta, WC and Lombardia. (potentially in the future)
 
R

Rou

Mar 20, 2024
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Peyroteo94 said:
So it is silly to say Vingegaard 2023 had a better recovery than Pogacar 2024. Vingegaard was vulnerable in the Vuelta and far from his level in the Tour. On the other hand, Pogacar showed a level in the Tour never seen before and after doing the Giro.
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I am talking about recovery not about level shown. Vingegaard in his 2024 TDF form would have cracked Pog's level from the Giro. But Pog's Giro is an anomaly because he rode the race like a big training camp. He attacked wherever he wanted and nobody was even close.
I have not seen how Pog would react after a super hard TDF. In 2022 and 2023 he was dead after the Tour. But I have seen Vingegaard and Roglic being able to recover super well after a hard Tour. Roglic multiple times even after crashes.
 
S

Salvarani

Oct 15, 2017
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Peyroteo94 said:
I think you are underestimating the importance of winning the Vuelta and win all GTs and things in cycling change really quickly. PR is a must for him, I know he said that in the heat of the moment but that hug and conversation with Veermersch, saying "we will comeback", showed to me he wants to be there next year.
He will not be the top GT rider forever and he is not immune to bad luck. Bernal broke his collarbone and ended up winning the Tour because of that (Froome "ended" his career in a TT recon in the same year.
Click to expand...
I am not underestimating that and you are just missing the point.
 
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