Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Peyroteo94]

I am talking about recovery not about level shown. Vingegaard in his 2024 TDF form would have cracked Pog's level from the Giro. But Pog's Giro is an anomaly because he rode the race like a big training camp. He attacked wherever he wanted and nobody was even close.
I have not seen how Pog would react after a super hard TDF. In 2022 and 2023 he was dead after the Tour. But I have seen Vingegaard and Roglic being able to recover super well after a hard Tour. Roglic multiple times even after crashes.

Pogacar goes crazy in March/April, something the other 2 don't. If you really think Pogacar can't recover like Roglic and Vingegaard, you are not watching cycling in the last year.
Vingegaard in the Vuelta 2023 was stronger than Pogacar in the Giro 2024?

 

[Salvarani]

He doesnt and shouldnt target Vuelta this season given what he has taken on this year.

If he does, then so be it. The best of luck.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Alternating between these is what I believe and think are best.

1: MSR, Ronde, PR, LBL, Tour, WC and Lombardia. (this season)

2: MSR, LBL, Giro, Tour, WC and Lombardia. (last season)

3. MSR, LBL, Giro, Vuelta, WC and Lombardia. (potentially in the future)

4. MSR, LBL, Tour, Vuelta, WC and Lombardia. (potentially in the future)

Nice schedules, only the first one I disagree with.

And mostly for 2 reasons:
1.: it really isn't a lot of extra race days, actually just like 2 or 3, to do RVV and PR. If he's gobbaa try too win Liege anyway, he'll instead of doing Classics probably a Stage race or two instead. 2.: Even if he doesn't do it he'll still have to maintain form trough the time that RVV and PR take place. So given that it's only a few more race days, I don't think the strain is to high. I actually think that doing RN or Tirreno + Catalunya/Itzulia is more straining than doing what he did this year so far. He's only raced 11 days this season so far!

 

[Peyroteo94]

He will have 67-70 days this year if he does the Vuelta. Not too much, specially if we consider he will not race UAE Tour next year.

 

[Salvarani]

Nice schedules, only the first one I disagree with.

And mostly for 2 reasons:
1.: it really isn't a lot of extra race days, actually just like 2 or 3, to do RVV and PR. If he's gobbaa try too win Liege anyway, he'll instead of doing Classics probably a Stage race or two instead. Even if he doesn't do it he'll still have to maintain form trough the time that RVV and PR take place. So given that it's only a few more race days, I don't think the strain is to high. I actually think that doing RN or Tirreno + Catalunya/Itzulia is more straining than doing what he did this year so far. He's only raced 11 days this season so far!

It is not just about the race days. It is the time preparing also for all these races, which he does specifically and hard.

Hence two GTs would be dumb imo.

He should skip cobbles if doing that.

 

[Peyroteo94]

He can't target PR every year unless he wins the Vuelta. I think he should risk losing the WC in Kigali in order to win the Vuelta and never come back again (at least in a near future).
@Salvarani shouldn't be better to win the Vuelta and then never come back?

 

[Salvarani]

He can't target PR every year unless he wins the Vuelta according with Salvarani. I think he should risk losing the WC in Kigali in order to win the Vuelta and never comeback again (at least in a near future).

Missing the point again.

I given four alternatives that are sound and achievable.

Don’t think he should or can do everything in one year. It is stupid and dumb.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

It is not just about the race days. It is the time preparing also for all these races, which he does specifically and hard.

Hence two GTs would be dumb imo.

He should skip cobbles if doing that.

But it has so far only been 4 one day races he targeted. My point is: he needs to prepare for stage races as well, and I can promise you if he skips the cobbles he rides a stage race around that time. I don't see why he should not race 70 days or so a season.

But we'll see what he ends up doing!

 

[Peyroteo94]

Missing the point again.

I given four alternatives that are sound and achievable.

Don’t think he should or can do everything in one year. It stupid and dumb.

I edited my post.

 

[Salvarani]

But it has so far only been 4 one day races he targeted. My point is: he needs to prepare for stage races as well, and I can promise you if he skips the cobbles he rides a stage race around that time. I don't see why he should not race 70 days or so a season.

But we'll see what he ends up doing!

Different races, different type of prep and travel.

I only put down main targets. He will do races that fit outside of them.

But doing two GTs he should only do the hilly monuments and prepare as he did last season.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I think Jumbo is severely undercooking Vingegaard to play into his strengths which is top shape in end of 2nd and 3rd week of TdF. And then Vuelta.

And then try to do something good in WC.

I don't think so. Vingegaard just had a concussion in PN. His schedule is very similar to 2022 or 2023 and even 2024 (he would not race the Vuelta even if he didn't crash).

 

[Salvarani]

@Salvarani shouldn't be better to win the Vuelta and then never come back?

I think it will just be too much this season, given his schedule this season, and he will be cooked going into the offseason.

It is a brutal thing that you are suggesting imo and not wise.

He can do the Vuelta in any of the three alternatives I suggested it in. In any upcoming season.

 

[hayneplane]

We already had this discussion but do you really think Pogacar should wait until 2029 to win the Vuelta?
Following your favorite schedule for Pogacar, he only could target the Vuelta when the WC route is not good for him.
So it will be only in 2029.
2025 - WC in Kigali
2026 - WC in Montreal, probably a course tailormade for him.
2027 - WC in the French Alps. We already know the course so another WC tailormade for him.
2028 - Tour and then ORR finishing in Venice beach. I believe we will have a route good for puncheurs/climbers.
2029 - The only year he can fight for Tour-Vuelta because worlds will be in Danmark

I really want him to ride it this year and win it to tick it off his career slam.

Putting off what you can do now can prove foolish if immense or injury strikes and he is not the same rider again.

If he was to fully prioritise Worlds he could could still do Tour and Vuelta in 2027 because travel is minimal with WC in France and it falls before the Vuelta in the calendar so could try and hold your peak for worlds and just see if he still has enough left in the legs to win the Vuelta.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I think it will just be too much this season, given his schedule this season, and he will be cooked going into the offseason.

It is a brutal thing that you are suggesting imo and not wise.

He can do the Vuelta in any of the three alternatives I suggested it in. In any upcoming season.

He was cooked in 2023 and still did his best season ever in 2024. He has time to rest in the off season.

 

[Salvarani]

He was cooked in 2023 and still did his best season ever in 2024. He has time to rest in the off season.

He didnt race two GTs

 

[Peyroteo94]

But this year the route in Vuelta is very easy. Let him win and probably risk his WC but he will have opportunities in 2026 and 2027

 

[Berniece]

Why aren’t Vuelta and WC compatible? Look at Evenepoel in 2022 (Vuelta + WC) and 2024 (TDF + OG), and that was before Pogacar was so good he could ride the whole season

 

[hayneplane]

Pog has four alternatives imo on how to structure his main targets.

1: MSR, Ronde, PR, LBL, Tour, WC and Lombardia. (this season)

2: MSR, LBL, Giro, Tour, WC and Lombardia. (last season)

3. MSR, LBL, Giro, Vuelta, WC and Lombardia. (potentially in the future)

4. MSR, LBL, Tour, Vuelta, WC and Lombardia. (potentially in the future)

I think either of those are achievable and not spreading himself thin.

If a Giro 2024 level GC field show up I think he could do a Giro Vuelta bid while still doing all the big spring classics then just rest up mid season and skip the Tour.

 

[Salvarani]

If a Giro 2024 level GC field show up I think he could do a Giro Vuelta bid while still doing all the big spring classics then just rest up mid season and skip the Tour.

I don’t think so

 

[Salvarani]

Why aren’t Vuelta and WC compatible? Look at Evenepoel in 2022 (Vuelta + WC) and 2024 (TDF + OG), and that was before Pogacar was so good he could ride the whole season

It is compatible, but not if you have raced all the monuments in the spring and the Tour.

 

[YavorD]

Why aren’t Vuelta and WC compatible? Look at Evenepoel in 2022 (Vuelta + WC) and 2024 (TDF + OG), and that was before Pogacar was so good he could ride the whole season

It's not just the Vuelta+WC.
It's the Tour+Vuelta+WC on top of a a heavy classics season.

 

[hayneplane]

Why aren’t Vuelta and WC compatible? Look at Evenepoel in 2022 (Vuelta + WC) and 2024 (TDF + OG), and that was before Pogacar was so good he could ride the whole season

They can be very compatible. Think the debate is whether you can reasonably do Tour-Vuelta-WC back to back to back with the aim of winning all 3x

 

[Salvarani]

But this year the route in Vuelta is very easy. Let him win and probably risk his WC but he will have opportunities in 2026 and 2027

He will be risking too much for the upcoming years by potentially overdo it this season.

 

[Netserk]

(he would not race the Vuelta even if he didn't crash).

He would. No different than the year before.

 

[Salvarani]

They can be very compatible. Think the debate is whether you can reasonably do Tour-Vuelta-WC back to back to back with the aim of winning all 3x

Possible but not smart to target when you have also gone hard in the spring. Doing all of MSR, Ronde, PR and LBL

People seem to forget all the preparation that he has done here as well. Just focusing on race days doesnt tell the story about the workload, or the hard work for and in these races.