Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[tobydawq]

''Tom Pidcock climbed Målselv at 7.91 ᵉW/kg for 8:16, the best short-climb effort of the 21st century. The greatest of all time remains Evgeni Berzin’s 1995 Euskal Bizikleta performance: 8.50 ᵉW/kg for 4:46 to beat Alex Zülle.'' No wonder,he was so strong in strade.

Decent effort by Corbin Strong to follow him.

Also, obvious thread choice for this post.

 

[RedheadDane]

Decent effort by Corbin Strong to follow him.

Also, obvious thread choice for this post.

Maybe he just thought this is the TP discussion thread.
Though, that could create some very strange situations.

 

[Peyroteo94]

While the retirement talk seems serious I do think 3 more years are guaranteed. 2028 or 2030 are most likely (so 3 or 5 more seasons). It could be also kind of game to force the sheikhs to release him from Tour duty.

I just don't know if he is willing enough to go hard on training anymore. He misses that little spark.

 

[Peyroteo94]

If I'd won 4 TdFs, a Giro, a Worlds and all those Classics, and earnt a fortune, I'm not risking my life on 90 km/h descents any more, I'm retiring tomorrow. Like you'd do any different.

This doesn't make sense, specially when you are by far the best GT rider and the best classics rider.

 

[Peyroteo94]

''Tom Pidcock climbed Målselv at 7.91 ᵉW/kg for 8:16, the best short-climb effort of the 21st century. The greatest of all time remains Evgeni Berzin’s 1995 Euskal Bizikleta performance: 8.50 ᵉW/kg for 4:46 to beat Alex Zülle.'' No wonder,he was so strong in strade.

That's BS. Look to time gaps. He did the best short climb effort and time gaps were so tiny? Were others also climbing better than Pogacar?

 

[Copperberg]

Yes Lombardy the one and only race , yet somehow Pog is above him

Well to follow your logic, if Pogacar wants to become GOAT he needs 75% of the wins and other things to beat Merckx. The magical number then is 2 as Merckx got 3 right?

 

[QueenStagiaire]

That's BS. Look to time gaps. He did the best short climb effort and time gaps were so tiny? Were others also climbing better than Pogacar?

Well, it was a very slow and easy day before an 8 minute unipuerto at sea level. Anyone can do insane numbers there.

 

[BubbaChuck]

No,obv that claim is nonsense.Just shows pidcock is putting some serius watts on short climbs.

 

[BubbaChuck]

These watts guys need to understand by making silly claims,thye are not helping their case.Its just for clicks.

 

[Berniece]

I just don't know if he is willing wnough to go hard on training anymore. He misses that little spark.

Based on what? An interview? He just trained hard and won the TDF... You guys are overreacting. If he doesn't perform at the WC, sure then you can start thinking about him missing the motivation to train properly. But there are no indicators that's currently the case.

 

[Peyroteo94]

No,obv that claim is nonsense.Just shows pidcock is putting some serius watts on short climbs.

And overestimation seems an easy explanation for those numbers.

 

[Peyroteo94]

This is why I don't care about junior results anymore. They don't tell us anything about his future development and how they dominate when they are pros.
This also explains why Pogacar became the best after joining UAE.

“Hope stealing it will make you feel a lot better”: Cyclist leaves “emotional manipulation” note on bike to dissuade thieves; 21-year-old Alpecin-Deceuninck rider quits pro cycling citing safety concerns amidst fatal crashes + more on the live blog

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[Berniece]

This is why I don't care about junior results anymore. They don't tell us anything about his future development and how they dominate when they are pros.
This also explains why Pogacar became the best after joining UAE.

“Hope stealing it will make you feel a lot better”: Cyclist leaves “emotional manipulation” note on bike to dissuade thieves; 21-year-old Alpecin-Deceuninck rider quits pro cycling citing safety concerns amidst fatal crashes + more on the live blog

It’s the kind of Tuesday where the tarmac’s melting and bidons are boiling, but Ryan Mallon and Adwitiya are still keeping cool and bringing you all the cycling news, gossip, and whatever else survives the heat

road.cc

Doesn’t explain his jump from 2023 -> 2024

 

[Jan the Man]

Yes Lombardy the one and only race , yet somehow Pog is above him

It all depends on any weighting one applies to the level of competition.

It is incoceviable imo that Pog ends up with as many monuments and GTs overall as Merckx. For me however the numbers whereas instructive will not be determining for what is anyway a subjective question.

Assuming Pog continues to perform well for the next several years adding GTs and monuments he will be very close imo. If you look at some of the results from Liege/Ronde you can see how much narrower the competition pool was with the Belgium monuments becoming akin to a quasi Belgium Champs.

 

[Berniece]

If you look at some of the results from Liege/Ronde you can see how much narrower the competition pool was with the Belgium monuments becoming akin to a quasi Belgium Champs.

And De Ronde was a million times more easier than it was now. With 2 hills. If the course was like it was today Merckx would've easily won De Ronde 5 times.

 

[Cycling111]

What Pogacar is doing now is more difficult because his rivals are much more specialized.

While Vingegaard was training for the Tour, Pogacar was competing against VDP in Roubaix, which was his last objective of the season.

Before, De Vlaeminck finished seventh in Sallanches World Championships. Now, VDP isn't even going to World Championships, claiming it's for climbers. Not even Van Aert is going to Rwanda to be tough; De Vlaeminck went to Sallanches.

In today's cycling, Pogacar is the only cyclist who has to perform in every scenario. Pogacar has to vary his training at every moment of the year, while his rivals train for very specific goals.

Pogacar has to win on every terrain in a more specialized cycling world.
Before, everyone did more type of races.

 

[rafa92]

Doesn’t explain his jump from 2023 -> 2024

his jump from 2023 is not as big at is seems. In 2023 he had an injury in the middle of the season who influenced his level in the tour. Despite that in the first two weeks of the tour he was still able to produce his best performances ever (at that point) on long climbs. Plus in the spring of 2023 his level was already super high, he won flanders and without the crash in liege he would have easily completed the ardennes treble. Then with the new trainer he increased his level in 2024 but not by that much compared to 2023 considering the injury. The jump from 2023-2024 is easily explainable

 

[Peyroteo94]

It all depends on any weighting one applies to the level of competition.

It is incoceviable imo that Pog ends up with as many monuments and GTs overall as Merckx. For me however the numbers whereas instructive will not be determining for what is anyway a subjective question.

Assuming Pog continues to perform well for the next several years adding GTs and monuments he will be very close imo. If you look at some of the results from Liege/Ronde you can see how much narrower the competition pool was with the Belgium monuments becoming akin to a quasi Belgium Champs.

Before his thoughts about retirement, I really thought 11 GTs or 19 monuments were reachable. MVP is getting older and Pogacar is getting better year after year. I was pretty sure he would reach his best level in 2026-2028. It's not unrealistic he would win 4 GTs or 6 monuments in this period.
Then he would only need 2 GTs or 4 monuments after 2028. This is not that difficult for a rider like Teddy.

 

[Berniece]

his jump from 2023 is not as big at is seems. In 2023 he had an injury in the middle of the season who influenced his level in the tour. Despite that in the first two weeks of the tour he was still able to produce his best performances ever (at that point) on long climbs. Plus in the spring of 2023 his level was already super high, he won flanders and without the crash in liege he would have easily completed the ardennes treble. Then with the new trainer he increased his level in 2024 but not by that much compared to 2023 considering the injury. The jump from 2023-2024 is easily explainable

I don't agree, since you already said he was able to produce his best performances ever in 2023 and would've won the treble if Evenepoel didn't ride. Then on top of that he made a huge step.

 

[Peyroteo94]

his jump from 2023 is not as big at is seems. In 2023 he had an injury in the middle of the season who influenced his level in the tour. Despite that in the first two weeks of the tour he was still able to produce his best performances ever (at that point) on long climbs. Plus in the spring of 2023 his level was already super high, he won flanders and without the crash in liege he would have easily completed the ardennes treble. Then with the new trainer he increased his level in 2024 but not by that much compared to 2023 considering the injury. The jump from 2023-2024 is easily explainable

This. Before his crash, Pogi won these races:
PN (smoked Vingegaard)
RVV (doing something unthinkable for many users here: he dropped MVP)
AGR and FW (dominant performances)
LBL (he crashed but he was clearly the number one favorite)
His preparation was clearly suboptimal. IIRC he wasn't riding his bike (outdoor) until the last week of May and still showed a higher ceilling than Vingegaard. He just lacked consistency. Marie Blanque is a climb tailormade for Pogacar and he was almost 40 seconds slower thsn Vingegaard there. One day later, he is dropping Vingegaard. There is no way, a well prepared Pogacar would oscilate his level like this.
He made a jump from 2022 to 2023 and no one talks about this.

 

[Charlyghoul]

What Pogacar is doing now is more difficult because his rivals are much more specialized.

While Vingegaard was training for the Tour, Pogacar was competing against VDP in Roubaix, which was his last objective of the season.

Before, De Vlaeminck finished seventh in Sallanches World Championships. Now, VDP isn't even going to World Championships, claiming it's for climbers. Not even Van Aert is going to Rwanda to be tough; De Vlaeminck went to Sallanches.

In today's cycling, Pogacar is the only cyclist who has to perform in every scenario. Pogacar has to vary his training at every moment of the year, while his rivals train for very specific goals.

Pogacar has to win on every terrain in a more specialized cycling world.
Before, everyone did more type of races.

Perhaps , but where’s all the competition in the tour? Where are the guys who can finish high consistently? Apart from Vingegaard, there aren’t any.
It’s a very poor era for grand tour contenders.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Well to follow your logic, if Pogacar wants to become GOAT he needs 75% of the wins and other things to beat Merckx. The magical number then is 2 as Merckx got 3 right?

Well how much do you think he needs ?

 

[Charlyghoul]

It all depends on any weighting one applies to the level of competition.

It is incoceviable imo that Pog ends up with as many monuments and GTs overall as Merckx. For me however the numbers whereas instructive will not be determining for what is anyway a subjective question.

Assuming Pog continues to perform well for the next several years adding GTs and monuments he will be very close imo. If you look at some of the results from Liege/Ronde you can see how much narrower the competition pool was with the Belgium monuments becoming akin to a quasi Belgium Champs.

I agree he can get very close, but he’s still some way off.
As for the last point, maybe in some races that was true, there were still a lot of strong riders there.

Pog only has one rival in the tour now, everybody else is very poor. Merckx had better competition at the tour than Pog has had, and if you took away Vingegaard Pogs competition would be truly atrocious

 

[Cycling111]

If you don't believe there's room for improvement, then why do you insist Remco has a chance of winning the Tour? Because that would require a much greater level of improvement.

By the way, Remco's climbing level in the 2024 Tour was far superior to his usual climbing level.
Remco, who has climbing difficulties, climbed faster than Pantani. Analyze that since it's so interesting to you. I find more remarkable Remco climbing faster than Pantani that Pogacar and Vingeggaard did it.

What's tiresome is that in other threads, especially Remco's thread, you get annoyed by unfavorable opinions, but then you're the first to say and insinuate worse things in this thread.

How boring. Just assume Pogacsr is in the situation you expected Remco to be in. Then there'd be no complaints.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Also apart Van der Poel the classics field is poorer than in past eras, Pogacar basically has one very good rival in the classics and one in the tour.
Like i said for an era of specialism this is pretty bad