Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Peyroteo94]

He's racing history. It's his only competition. As @James M would say, it's basic stuff. Easy for all to see. You don't have to like it to see it.

You can hope he crashes or slumps into a debilitating depression. That's kind of a bad situation to be in if you aren't a fan of the rider but spend time looking at the sport.

He is italian, maybe he is sad because there aren't great italian riders right now. Only Milan is worldclass in his field.

 

[pmcg76]

Because Hinault had Lemond, Fignon, Zoetemelk

Indurain had Zulle, Rominger, Pantani

It depends if you value one great rival or several (maybe) slightly lesser rivals

Hinault won his first Tour in 78 and didn't face Fignon/LeMond at the Tour until 84 when he was 29! How is Zoetemelk better than Vingegaard, please explain that one? He couldn't win even when Merckx wasn't there, Ocana, Thevenet, Van Impe all won Tours in the same era.

Likewise, Zulle, Rominger, Pantani only made the podium one time each in the Indurain era, none were any closer in time than Vingegaard so how were they better opponents?

 

[Charlyghoul]

Pogacar has Vingegaard and Roglic in GT's and Evenepoel, VDP and Van Aert in the classics.

Hinault had Fignon and Lemond, I’d put them both above Vingegaard and Roglic.
Indurain is more dedatable.
There’s nothing special about the current era of riders

 

[Charlyghoul]

Hinault won his first Tour in 77 and didn't face Fignon/LeMond at the Tour until 84 when he was 29! How is Zoetemelk better than Vingegaard, please explain that one? He couldn't win even when Merckx wasn't there, Ocana, Thevenet, Van Impe all won Tours in the same era.

Likewise, Zulle, Rominger, Pantani only made the podium one time each in the Indurain era, none were any closer in time than Vingegaard so how were they better opponents?

But he did face him and lost to him, and he lost to Lemond in 86, so that’s comparable to Ving v Pog.
Zoetemelk was ever present, and better than say Adam Yates or Richie Porte no? Or Remco for that matter.
No I think Ving is probably above Zoetemelk, but he isn’t above Lemond or Fignon.

Zulle, Rominger, and Pantani were all multiple gt winners, that’s pretty good competition, better on average than today’s contenders.

 

[scribers]

Hinault had Fignon and Lemond, I’d put them both above Vingegaard and Roglic.
Indurain is more dedatable.
There’s nothing special about the current era of riders

Hey guys it’s settled. Nothing special about this eras riders

 

[Charlyghoul]

Hey guys it’s settled. Nothing special about this eras riders

You sound like there’s never been an all round cyclist before, or there’s never been a great cobbles rider…

 

[SHAD0W93]

Sastre - tour winner
Pereiro- tour winner
Valverde- gt winner
Vino- gt winner
Basso - gt winner

Lipowitz- none
Yates -none
Other Yates - gt winner
Roglic- gt winner
Onley - none
Porte- none

Yes, Oscar Pereiro a huge threat in Grand Tours during the 2000’s.

 

[SHAD0W93]

He is italian, maybe he is sad because there aren't great italian riders right now. Only Milan is worldclass in his field.

I think they’re more Portuguese than Italian.

 

[Charlyghoul]

I think they’re more Portuguese than Italian.

I am from Slovenia

 

[Charlyghoul]

Yes, Oscar Pereiro a huge threat in Grand Tours during the 2000’s.

Well, he did…win , you don’t need to threaten when you’ve already won

 

[Charlyghoul]

Bugno, another contender for Indurain.
Giro winner
World champ x 2
Flanders winner
San remo winner
2nd in liege and Lombardy (and tour)

Not really considered as a main rival for Indurain, yet his palmares is somewhat like Remco at this point.
This is because the standard was higher, and such riders were not generally considered as tour winners.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Yes, Oscar Pereiro a huge threat in Grand Tours during the 2000’s.

Vino, Sastre and specially Pereiro were not really gt winners but circunstances gave them a GT.

 

[pmcg76]

But he did face him and lost to him, and he lost to Lemond in 86, so that’s comparable to Ving v Pog.
Zoetemelk was ever present, and better than say Adam Yates or Richie Porte no? Or Remco for that matter.
No I think Ving is probably above Zoetemelk, but he isn’t above Lemond or Fignon.

Zulle, Rominger, and Pantani were all multiple gt winners, that’s pretty good competition, better on average than today’s contenders.

They came at the end of the Hinault era, he had won 4 Tours before he faced off against either and was coming back from injury in 84 when Fignon was a freak. Just look at the margins of Hinaults victories, twice over 10 minutes. He dominated every bit as much as Pogacar.

Roglic is a clone of Rominger in terms of results, Simon Yates has the same number of GT wins as Zulle and Pantani and like I said they were no closer to Indurain than Vingegaard is to Pogacar.

You seem awfully desperate to diminish Pogacar and the modern era of cyclists.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Vino, Sastre and specially Pereiro were not really gt winners but circunstances gave them a GT.

But Sepp Kuss won his by being the best rider ?
Sastre has 15 gt top tens,
Yet according to you Oscar Onley would be winning the 70s tours…

 

[Charlyghoul]

They came at the end of the Hinault era, he had won 4 Tours before he faced off against either and was coming back from injury in 84 when Fignon was a freak. Just look at the margins of Hinaults victories, twice over 10 minutes. He dominated every bit as much as Pogacar.

Roglic is a clone of Rominger in terms of results, Simon Yates has the same number of GT wins as Zulle and Pantani and like I said they were no closer to Indurain than Vingegaard is to Pogacar.

You seem awfully desperate to diminish Pogacar and the modern era of cyclists.

I don’t want to diminish it , it just isn’t as good as many make it out to be.
From what we’ve been discussing, the eras are actually somewhat comparable, but many posters here just say this era is better, without looking at the quality of the contenders.
It actually is no better than previous eras. So Pogacar isn’t a miracle worker, he’s just a great rider.
Fignon and Hinault were both injured for years.

 

[Peyroteo94]

But Sepp Kuss won his by being the best rider ?
Sastre has 15 gt top tens,
Yet according to you Oscar Onley would be winning the 70s tours…

Without a doubt. In Merckx's time, differences were made in valleys not in mountains.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Route looks more suited to Pogacar this year. Hard to see anyone beating him there.

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[Charlyghoul]

Without a doubt. In Merckx's time, differences were made in valleys not in mountains.

This is just silly you know it is

 

[Peyroteo94]

I am from Slovenia

Lol

 

[Peyroteo94]

This is just silly you know it is

I can assure you, many people here believe you should be the last person here to call silly to someone's post.

 

[Charlyghoul]

I can assure you, many people here believe you should be the last person here to call silly to someone's post.

They must not know all about Fausto and Eddy.
Your ‘Sastre is not a real tour winner, despite winning one, Onley will dominate the 70s, despite winning nothing’ is a whopper

 

[SHAD0W93]

Well, he did…win , you don’t need to threaten when you’ve already won

After being allowed almost 30 mins in the breakaway. Pereiro was the Nieve of the 2000’s. If given the same advantage as Pereiro these riders would win the Tour and some by minutes; Healy, Gee, Pinot, A. Yates, Cattaneo, Carapaz, Aru, Bernal, Nieve, G. Thomas, S. Sanchez, F. Schleck, M. Rogers, Monfort, P. Velits, Sastre, Sastre, Nibali, and Mayo. Which is a good list until you remember they were all given a 30 min handicap. And this was with the worst finishers at most 29 mins back in each edition.

 

[hfgon1]

Sastre - tour winner
Pereiro- tour winner
Valverde- gt winner
Vino- gt winner
Basso - gt winner

Lipowitz- none
Yates -none
Other Yates - gt winner
Roglic- gt winner
Onley - none
Porte- none

This is such a weird post in my eyes... I could also say that Pogacar has beaten Chris Froome in 2021 Tour de France. He has beaten Grand Tour winners like Geraint Thomas, Vincenzo Nibali, Tom Dumoulin, Richard Carapaz, Egan Bernal, Jai Hindley, Tao Geoghegan Hart, Nairo Quintana, Sepp Kuss, Remco Evenepoel or Fabio Aru.

Every generation has its Grand Tour winners, so it doesnt make a difference at all. You can cherry-pick in each generation. In every generation you have to fight against top guys. No win is worth more or less because it was in another year. The rider is not responsible for his opponents, he can only win against the guys that are next to him at the start line.

 

[MariaB]

Farmers are stronger than fishermen

I am laughing for many days reading your comments.

 

[Unchained]

They must not know all about Fausto and Eddy.
Your ‘Sastre is not a real tour winner, despite winning one, Onley will dominate the 70s, despite winning nothing’ is a whopper

So wait.. Carlos Sastre won the race in virtual reality? Or on a different planet? Carlos was actually a decent racer for a number of years.. Don't know if you are talking about another racer.. Carlos is a common name!!! LOL..