Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Cycling111]

Is Pogacar riding like Eddy Merckx? Evenepoel answer:

"Merckx also won his time trials"

Tadej Pogacar the new Eddy Merckx? Not according to Remco Evenepoel: “Merckx also won his time trials”

Remco Evenepoel may be gearing up for his final race in the colours of Soudal - Quick-Step, but that didn’t stop him from offering a playful — and pointed — comparison between two of cycling’s modern...

cyclinguptodate.com

Remco is making sure Eddy is untouchable

The only intelligent person in this seems to be Vingegaard. He said Pogacar was better. I don't know if he really means it, but it adds more value to Vingegaard's achievements to say that his greatest rival is the best in history.

Remco should have just said that Pogacar is a bad time trialist, thus taking away any value from lapping someone so bad.

 

[Berniece]

The only intelligent person in this seems to be Vingegaard. He said Pogacar was better. I don't know if he really means it, but it adds more value to Vingegaard's achievements to say that his greatest rival is the best in history.

Remco should have just said that Pogacar is a bad time trialist, thus taking away any value from lapping someone so bad.

Or read the actual article instead of just the title. He made a joke.

 

[Lurkerman]

He took a big step in 24, it' clear, but he took an equally big step in 23, did he not? I'm trying to convince myself of this take

 

[BubbaChuck]

remco aint lying,lmao.pog pushing crazy numbers on recon.

 

[Peyroteo94]

He took a big step in 24, it' clear, but he took an equally big step in 23, did he not? I'm trying to convince myself of this take

He did. He improved a lot after 2022.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Is Pogacar riding like Eddy Merckx? Evenepoel answer:

"Merckx also won his time trials"

Tadej Pogacar the new Eddy Merckx? Not according to Remco Evenepoel: “Merckx also won his time trials”

Remco Evenepoel may be gearing up for his final race in the colours of Soudal - Quick-Step, but that didn’t stop him from offering a playful — and pointed — comparison between two of cycling’s modern...

cyclinguptodate.com

Remco is making sure Eddy is untouchable

Yeah, it's funny how belgians are constantly trying to put Merckx as the Goat. Only the belgians. This inferiority complex about Pogacar...

 

[Berniece]

Yeah, it's funny how belgians are constantly trying to put Merckx as the Goat. Only the belgians. This inferiority complex about Pogacar...

Yeah how weird people defend their own riders. That's the definition of an inferiority complex

 

[Lorzenz08]

Pogi today on a Lomardia recon saying to a fan " Where are you riding, go on the right side " haha

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DPo8nzFjEGP/?igsh=bnpyNXduNnZyeGJ3

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[Cookster15]

Yeah, it's funny how belgians are constantly trying to put Merckx as the Goat. Only the belgians. This inferiority complex about Pogacar...

Not Belgians. This was Remco speaking. Remco is referring to the fact that Eddy's strongest discipline relative to his rivals was TT.

Pogacar's strength relative to his rivals today is much more weighted towards climbing. Pogi's TT is one of the best but not as good as Remco unless its a MTT or very hilly (like Nice 2024 TdF).

So, I don't find it surprising that Remco talk up TT as that is his strength. Got nothing to do with an inferiority complex.

I also think its good that Remco is trying to be optimistic on his chances. It does not help to be defeatist.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Not Belgians. This was Remco speaking. Remco is referring to the fact that Eddy's strongest discipline relative to his rivals was TT.

Pogacar's strength relative to his rivals today is much more weighted towards climbing. Pogi's TT is one of the best but not as good as Remco unless its a MTT or very hilly (like Nice 2024 TdF).

So, I don't find it surprising that Remco talk up TT as that is his strength. Got nothing to do with an inferiority complex.

I also think its good that Remco is trying to be optimistic on his chances. It does not help to be defeatist.

Roger, Axel, Bruyneel and now Remco. Just here, there are 4 belgians who said the same thing.
Of course they all ignore Merckx's competition. Monuments were national championships, specially PR, RVV and LBL

 

[Cookster15]

Roger, Axel, Bruyneel and now Remco. Just here, there are 4 belgians who said the same thing.
Of course they all ignore Merckx's competition. Monuments were national championships, specially PR, RVV and LBL

Good for them. Nationalism is hardly new. I see nothing wrong with it. And what Remco said was also fine.

Freedom of speech. We can gloat after GdL assuming the outcome is as most expect.

 

[YavorD]

Roger, Axel, Bruyneel and now Remco. Just here, there are 4 belgians who said the same thing.
Of course they all ignore Merckx's competition. Monuments were national championships, specially PR, RVV and LBL

And nowadays monuments are race between 2 riders. If Evenepoel is in good shape, you can say 3..
Yeeeeah, the competition is oooo big these days that 2 risers have won 16 monuments between them. In the last 5 years.

 

[Peyroteo94]

And nowadays monuments are race between 2 riders. If Evenepoel is in good shape, you can say 3..
Yeeeeah, the competition is oooo big these days that 2 risers have won 16 monuments between them. In the last 5 years.

This is the reason why Pogacar is the best. Not hard to understand... you don't see 8 Slovenians in the top 10 of major races.

 

[YavorD]

This is the reason why Pogacar is the best. Not hard to understand... you don't see 8 Slovenians in the top 10 of major races.

Irrelevant.
Both of them don't have competition, simple as that.
Merckx' competition was Roger De Vlaeminck, Pogacar's competition is Mathieu Van Der Poel.


If we talk about competition, perhaps we can mention that Merckx didn't have a team with unlimited budget (with all the bonuses coming along, clinic included) behind him as well, no? Isn't that relevant in regards to rider's success?

 

[Lurkerman]

Won't Pogi be washed up by the time Seixas reaches his full potential? He definitely sounded like that in his post Tour interviews.

The point here is precisely that he needs something like the specter of a storming, hungry and competitive young generation of upcoming racers in order to not become washed. There's competition in everything and everyone needs competition, and so whilst Pog has full motivation for MSR and PR + he's not as used to his own performances as we are, I think part of him has already begun to search for new competition, given how more reflective and consciousness of time he's become in interviews, since I guess that you, if nothing else, can just try to compete with time then ("one more year, then"-challenge, etc). Some competition can never be won since it's all just in your head, like trying to prove your old schoolyard bully wrong, but I don't think that's Pog at all, I also can't imagine him being at all motivated by chasing Merckx records like he had beef with some 80 year old Belgian lol. Same but different, that's how I like my life and I'm sure others do as well, Pog shared podiums with Valverde and I'm sure that Merckx feels some sadness about all the riders that he haven't had the youth to race against

 

[Lorzenz08]

Irrelevant.
Both of them don't have competition, simple as that.
Merckx' competition was Roger De Vlaeminck, Pogacar's competition is Mathieu Van Der Poel.


If we talk about competition, perhaps we can mention that Merckx didn't have a team with unlimited budget (with all the bonuses coming along, clinic included) behind him as well, no? Isn't that relevant in regards to rider's success?

Difference is Mathieu Van Der Poel entire training plan is to be competitive in March and April lol

De Vleminck was trying to be competitive all year long, he even finished a Giro 1minute behind Gimondi.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Irrelevant.
Both of them don't have competition, simple as that.
Merckx' competition was Roger De Vlaeminck, Pogacar's competition is Mathieu Van Der Poel.


If we talk about competition, perhaps we can mention that Merckx didn't have a team with unlimited budget (with all the bonuses coming along, clinic included) behind him as well, no? Isn't that relevant in regards to rider's success?

And most of the peloton didn't have professional riders. This will never end.

 

[YavorD]

And most of the peloton didn't have professional riders. This will never end.

And how much competition Pogacar has?
Without MVDP he wins 5 monuments, solo.
Doesn't speak volumes about the competition nowadays..

Just look at the Lombardia thread, 90% of the votes that aren't for Pogacar go to Faustox2 and Eddy. That's how strong the competition is..

 

[scribers]

Bruyneel has said the peloton had plenty of serious and credible riders in Merckx's day. In other words, the idea it wasn't a serious environment is bunk.

Fact is Merckx had a huge engine with incredible results. If pogi hangs in there without dark cloud of doom hovering over his head, he might give Merckx's results some serious challenge. As it stands, Merckx truly is and remain's Pogi's biggest problem today.

 

[Peyroteo94]

And how much competition Pogacar has?
Without MVDP he wins 5 monuments, solo.
Doesn't speak volumes about the competition nowadays..

Just look at the Lombardia thread, 90% of the votes that aren't for Pogacar go to Faustox2 and Eddy. That's how strong the competition is..

Numbers show Pogacar is clearly a bigger outlier. Being the best from a group of 40 professional riders is far easier than being the best from a group of 500 professional riders.

No one can ever tell me this is a high level of cycling:
(There are plenty of more examples of 6/7 Belgians in the top10)

Paris - Roubaix 1973 One day race results

Paris - Roubaix 1973 was won by Eddy Merckx before Walter Godefroot and Roger Rosiers.

www.procyclingstats.com

Liège - Bastogne - Liège 1970 One day race results

Liège - Bastogne - Liège 1970 was won by Roger De Vlaeminck before Frans Verbeeck and Eddy Merckx.

www.procyclingstats.com

Ronde van Vlaanderen / Tour des Flandres 1975 One day race results

Ronde van Vlaanderen / Tour des Flandres 1975 was won by Eddy Merckx before Frans Verbeeck and Marc Demeyer.

www.procyclingstats.com

Any reasonable person can see this was not a developed sport in the 70s. This was a national sport. Specially RVV and PR, those races looked like Belgium national championships. These are facts, we just need to look to the top10 in almost every year.
Even in WC, Belgium had like 10 riders in a peloton of 80 riders (10 teams) and can anyone convince me Merckx's 3 titles are similar to the 3 titles of Peter Sagan. Again, any reasonable person can see these facts and understand why Merckx is just the GOAT for some people because of his palmares.

 

[scribers]

Merckx didn't even have to go as deep as he did palmares-wise, but he did. And I am glad he did as it HAS to push or break pogi.

 

[YavorD]

Numbers show Pogacar is clearly a bigger outlier. Being the best from a group of 40 professional riders is far easier than being the best from a group of 500 professional riders.

No one can ever tell me this is a high level of cycling:
(There are plenty of more examples of 6/7 Belgians in the top10)

Paris - Roubaix 1973 One day race results

Paris - Roubaix 1973 was won by Eddy Merckx before Walter Godefroot and Roger Rosiers.

www.procyclingstats.com

Liège - Bastogne - Liège 1970 One day race results

Liège - Bastogne - Liège 1970 was won by Roger De Vlaeminck before Frans Verbeeck and Eddy Merckx.

www.procyclingstats.com

Ronde van Vlaanderen / Tour des Flandres 1975 One day race results

Ronde van Vlaanderen / Tour des Flandres 1975 was won by Eddy Merckx before Frans Verbeeck and Marc Demeyer.

www.procyclingstats.com

Any reasonable person can see this was not a developed sport in the 70s. This was a national sport. Specially RVV and PR, those races looked like Belgium national championships. These are facts, we just need to look to the top10 in almost every year.
Even in WC, Belgium had like 10 riders in a peloton of 80 riders (10 teams) and can anyone convince me Merckx's 3 titles are similar to the 3 titles of Peter Sagan. Again, any reasonable person can see these facts and understand why Merckx is just the GOAT for some people because of his palmares.

You don't get it, do you? Only 1 or 2, make it 3 including Vingegaard are competition for Pogacar.
You may include 497 riders in MSR if you wish, but if Van Der Poel isn't in the start list, there's no competition. Okay, maybe Ganna, potentially Evenepoel.
In the same time you may have a start list of 40 or even 20 WITH VDP inside and you have much stronger competition.


Absolutely the same goes to TdF, you may send all the pro riders (say 1000) in TdF, but if you don't have Vingegaard, you don't have competition.

 

[Peyroteo94]

You don't get it, do you? Only 1 or 2, make it 3 including Vingegaard are competition for Pogacar.
You may include 497 riders in MSR if you wish, but if Van Der Poel isn't in the start list, there's no competition. Okay, maybe Ganna, potentially Evenepoel.
In the same time you may have a start list of 40 or even 20 WITH VDP inside and you have much stronger competition.


Absolutely the same goes to TdF, you may send all the pro riders (say 1000) in TdF, but if you don't have Vingegaard, you don't have competition.

There isn't competition because Pogacar is a big outlier, you don't get it, do you? This just shows why he is the best ever. Competition is way better but he is also way better, c'mon, it's not that hard...
If you can't understand simple maths is hard to discuss something with you (being the best from a sample of 500 is different from being the best from a sample of 40. Simple maths)

 

[YavorD]

There isn't competition because Pogacar is a big outlier, you don't get it, do you? This just shows why he is the best ever. Competition is way better but he is also way better, c'mon, it's not that hard...
If you can't understand simple maths is hard to discuss something with you (being the best from a sample of 500 is different from being the best from a sample of 40. Simple maths)

But the sheer number of riders isn't too relevant. The level of the best 5 riders (who could be competitive) is far more important than the sheer number.
If you don't have Vingegaard in the Tour, you don't have competition and it doesn't matter how many riders you have.

 

[Peyroteo94]

But the sheer number of riders isn't too relevant. The level of the best 5 riders (who could be competitive) is far more important than the sheer number.
If you don't have Vingegaard in the Tour, you don't have competition and it doesn't matter how many riders you have.

This post is so wrong on many ways, it's hard to even counter this but let's do it.
In a universe of 500 riders, the chance of having good competition is higher compared to an universe of 40 riders and if you are so good that have no competition in a universe of 500 riders, it's because you are an outlier. You don't need to be such an outlier to be the best in a universe of 40 riders, specially when those 40 riders don't specialise in anything and race everything you race.