Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[BubbaChuck]

ocana (66kg) and van impe (58kg) are like poorman's version of pog and jonas. and pog is all round monster.we can do the math.

 

[Lorzenz08]

That catching up after the puncture really took something out of him. Especially as he only caught on right before Arenberg, no time to breath

 

[BahamontesPhantom]

Worse quality is not debatable, it's pure statistics. It's a fact. Being the best of 50 professional riders, it's different from being the best of 5000 professional riders. But let's not continue this conversation to not be off topic.

Regarding his schedule, there is any chance he races FW?

How much do the rest of the best 100 or 150 riders truly matter ?
Merckx raced against several tdf winners in the tours he won.
Pingeon, Van Impe, Zoetemelk, Gimondi, Ocana were all tour winners. Poulidor would be better than anyone today bar Pog and possibly Vingegaard.
Pog has raced against exactly one rider who has any kind of credentials of being a tour winner, a rider who lets not forget has beaten him 50% of the time…

Do these obscure New Zealanders, Zimbabweans and Ecuadoreans who never win anything and make up the modern peloton clean up in the 60s?

 

[BahamontesPhantom]

ocana (66kg) and van impe (58kg) are like poorman's version of pog and jonas. and pog is all round monster.we can do the math.

Those two together arguably = Vingegaard. Then there is the rest of Merckx opposition. Pogs grand tour opposition basically ends at Jonas

 

[BubbaChuck]

Jasper would never.

 

[canina82]

How much do the rest of the best 100 or 150 riders truly matter ?
Merckx raced against several tdf winners in the tours he won.
Pingeon, Van Impe, Zoetemelk, Gimondi, Ocana were all tour winners. Poulidor would be better than anyone today bar Pog and possibly Vingegaard.
Pog has raced against exactly one rider who has any kind of credentials of being a tour winner, a rider who lets not forget has beaten him 50% of the time…

Do these obscure New Zealanders, Zimbabweans and Ecuadoreans who never win anything and make up the modern peloton clean up in the 60s?

There is no chance only Vingegaard is worse than them. Gimondi won the TdF, 2 years later he is 7th (without Merckx). After this TdF, he wins the Vuelta, the Giro so this means he still was in his prime. In his prime he managed to get a 7th in the TdF, a 4th place, a 7th and 8th places in the Giro and you are telling me this is good competition? Even Gimondi wasn't nothing extraordinary back in his day. I could say the same about Poulidor or Zoetemelk for example.

Do you even think prime Vingegaard gets worse than a 3rd place without Pogacar in a GT? Or even a prime Roglic (without crashing out)? The difference is so big, it's just mindblowing comparing these eras.
In the Merckx's era, you can find 10 riders (or maybe more) that won multiple GTs and multiple monuments/WC. In the modern era (since Indurain), you have probably Nibali and Pogacar.

 

[BubbaChuck]

We already had this debate,my man changed his username. I think.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Pog has raced against exactly one rider who has any kind of credentials of being a tour winner, a rider who lets not forget has beaten him 50% of the time…

Hard to forget something that isn’t currently accurate.

 

[BahamontesPhantom]

There is no chance only Vingegaard is worse than them. Gimondi won the TdF, 2 years later he is 7th (without Merckx). After this TdF, he wins the Vuelta, the Giro so this means he still was in his prime. In his prime he managed to get a 7th in the TdF, a 4th place, a 7th and 8th places in the Giro and you are telling me this is good competition? Even Gimondi wasn't nothing extraordinary back in his day. I could say the same about Poulidor or Zoetemelk for example.

Do you even think prime Vingegaard gets worse than a 3rd place without Pogacar in a GT? Or even a prime Roglic (without crashing out)? The difference is so big, it's just mindblowing comparing these eras.
In the Merckx's era, you can find 10 riders (or maybe more) that won multiple GTs and multiple monuments/WC. In the modern era (since Indurain), you have probably Nibali and Pogacar.

Yes and you can debate the reasons for those gt/monument winners all day.
The facts are In Merckx era , at least in the tdf there were more grand tour winners on the podium in his tour wins, more world champions too, compared to Pogs wins.
You can argue about the ‘more global’ aspect of the modern era, but again, where are all these global tour winners or monument winners? (very few)
The big races are dominated by Europeans and always have been.

 

[BubbaChuck]

''Pogačar fought the last 50km on glycogen fumes. He didn't take his key gels because of a combination of mechanical chaos (the neutral bike) and a missed hand-off.'' I fukin knew it.

 

[BahamontesPhantom]

Hard to forget something that isn’t currently accurate.

Well Pog is 4 - 2 In the big one against his big ( only) rival.
Merckx was never embarrassed in his prime in such a way, he found a way to win.

And I’m not trying to argue for the sake of it here, but respect should be given to Merckx. Merckx dominated his rivals who were at least as great as Pogs, with long term injury to boot.
He was better in all aspects of cycling. Time trialling, sprinting, descending than Pog.
The only area where Pog is better is in pure climbing where Merckx was hindered by same injury, and where Pog was beaten twice and humiliated once by his only rival.
Sorry, but Merckx reigns supreme in cycling, and once again I’m a fan of Pogacar, it just seems there’s much recency bias here.
We maybe never even saw the very best of Merckx and he was still the greatest.

 

[BahamontesPhantom]

''Pogačar fought the last 50km on glycogen fumes. He didn't take his key gels because of a combination of mechanical chaos (the neutral bike) and a missed hand-off.'' I fukin knew it.

Merckx or Hinault would be laughed out of the peloton if they started talking about missed hand off related glycogen deficiency

 

[SHAD0W93]

Well Pog is 4 - 2 In the big one against his big ( only) rival.
Merckx was never embarrassed in his prime in such a way, he found a way to win.

It’s 3-2 for Pogacar vs Vingegaard, 4-2 if it’s Visma. So 40% of the time Vingegaard won but not half like you said. Then if we counted all 6 editions that’s still 33.3% Visma (Vingegaard) win percentage. Thats all I’m saying.

 

[Lequack]

Paris Roubaix 2026 | Behind the scenes​

View: https://youtu.be/fDdYPBTv8Qg?si=C-J9kl3uO0TlJAC7

 

[Brumdog66]

The same way a lot of riders who target the WC would target the Vuelta if they were able to contest it.

if you can win the tour you can win the Vuelta but not necessarily WC or Roubaix

 

[Brumdog66]

The idea that Merckx never lost and never got coocked is a myth.

He was 8 minutes down on Ocana in the tour and Ocana didn’t make an error, Merckx crashed in front of him which caused Ocana to crash and retire

 

[MariaB]

Well Pog is 4 - 2 In the big one against his big ( only) rival.
Merckx was never embarrassed in his prime in such a way, he found a way to win.

And I’m not trying to argue for the sake of it here, but respect should be given to Merckx. Merckx dominated his rivals who were at least as great as Pogs, with long term injury to boot.
He was better in all aspects of cycling. Time trialling, sprinting, descending than Pog.
The only area where Pog is better is in pure climbing where Merckx was hindered by same injury, and where Pog was beaten twice and humiliated once by his only rival.
Sorry, but Merckx reigns supreme in cycling, and once again I’m a fan of Pogacar, it just seems there’s much recency bias here.
We maybe never even saw the very best of Merckx and he was still the greatest.

Merckx rode against semi-pro farmers from 5 countries.

Stop it.

 

[AlpRaid]

i mean ocana was much worse than pog

Based on what exactly?

Ocana was mercurial. On his best day he dropped the Pog of his day by 8 minutes.

And people forget that when he won the TDF he won 6 stages and his second (future two-time winner Thevenet) was almost 16 mins behind in second. And Fuente (the Pantani of the 70s) was in third 17+ mins behind. He won ITTs and destroyed everyone (including Fuente) in the mountains.

I watched that TDF on a black and white TV in Belgium.

Those were the biggest gaps since Merckx’s 1969 win and have been unequaled since. Ocana was arguably the greatest GT rider of his day. It just happened that he only held that form in two TDFs.

Ocana was amazing though.

 

[AlpRaid]

He was 8 minutes down on Ocana in the tour and Ocana didn’t make an error, Merckx crashed in front of him which caused Ocana to crash and retire

Not true. Merckx was just going fast down a rain-swept mountain. He did not, however, cause Ocana’s crash.

 

[AlpRaid]

That catching up after the puncture really took something out of him. Especially as he only caught on right before Arenberg, no time to breath

Since 24 he does not appear to need to breathe, frankly.

 

[AlpRaid]

Merckx rode against semi-pro farmers from 5 countries.

Stop it.

He also smoked cigarettes occasionally.

Different times.

Give him a team with millions of $$, today’s nutrition and power-based training, and do you really think he would not be formidable. lol!

Fact is Boardman — despite all the advances he benefited from and being a track star —could only beat Merckx’s hour record by 10m and that was 25 years after Merckx who set his record after a long season including the giro/TDF double and 50+ victories.

Imagine Merckx not having to race 120 days a year to help pay for his family and his teammates. Imagine him training with limited targets.

Some of these comments are simply ridiculous and, frankly, ignorant.

 

[Brumdog66]

Not true. Merckx was just going fast down a rain-swept mountain. He did not, however, cause Ocana’s crash.

Obviously happened 50 years ago and this isn’t the only account but:
Van Impe: “Merckx fell first and Ocana got caught up in the crash. Ocana got up almost immediately and had a look to see if he could get going. He was standing when Zoetemelk reached him. The crash was awful….today the Tour has lost all its charm for me. It’s such a shame for Ocana and Merckx. Both of them have been formidable”.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Not true. Merckx was just going fast down a rain-swept mountain. He did not, however, cause Ocana’s crash.

From Wiki and needs more citations, I know but they got it somewhere.

“ After a rest day, Merckx cut that lead to 7 minutes and in the Pyrenees, on the Col de Menté, Merckx attacked as he descended the mountain. Merckx lost control and skidded into a low wall. Ocaña could not avoid Merckx[citation needed] and fell himself.
Merckx was up quickly and sped away. Ocaña struggled to release his cleats from the toe clips and was struck by the pursuing Joop Zoetemelk. The leader of the general classification lay on the ground screaming with pain. He was taken by helicopter to the hospital in Saint-Gaudens. He recovered but his
1971 Tour dreams had come to an end. '4. The following day Merckx refused to wear the yellow jersey, in tribute to Ocaña. There is a memorial at the scene of the accident on the western side of the Col de Menté in the Pyrenees (at 42°54'55.9"N 0°44'37.7"E).”

And Google

“Tour Look Back: Luis Ocaña - PezCycling News
Yes, Eddy Merckx was directly involved in the crash that forced Luis Ocaña to abandon the 1971 Tour de France. While descending the wet Col de Menté, Merckx skidded, causing Ocaña to fall over him. Although Ocaña was not immediately injured, he was hit by subsequent riders, causing severe injuries that ended his race while he held the yellow jersey.”

 

[AlpRaid]

But it was Zoetemelk hitting into him that ended his Tour. Merckx didn’t MAKE him crash. Didnt take him out. Thats like saying “you made me crash cuz I ran into your back wheel”.

He crashed just like Merckx had. And was going to keep going when Zoetemelk hit him.

 

[proffate]

Do these obscure New Zealanders, Zimbabweans and Ecuadoreans who never win anything and make up the modern peloton clean up in the 60s?

I don't know if you're trying to make the point that only Europeans can be good at cycling or what, but if you didn't notice, there are active riders from USA, Australia, UK, Ecuador, Colombia, Slovenia, Denmark and Belgium who have won GTs. No Italians, French or Spanish, though not for lack of headcount in the peloton. Meanwhile Merckx had pretty much only riders from these 3 nations to compete against. So...