Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Ripper]

3086 VAM on the Keutenberg

Am I the only one that gets the sense that he is still just toying and could go faster?

 

[Riek s]

Am I the only one that gets the sense that he is still just toying and could go faster?

considering he rode 30km with a higher rolling resistance and was putting in work on multiple climbs... probably.
but most of all, when he was alone he rode on the hoods in a way like you do for a training ride. e.g. not making yourself small like Remco for example does (or the two behind him who were literally trying to put their head in the bike frame). He just doesn't give a **** about wind resistance it seems. (or he doesn't need to care about it).

 

[pastronef]

Then Sky came along and it was ok to dominate Spring and summer stage races if you had the right pillows.

Sky's strenght would be annihilated by Jumbo now. Froome wouldn't be able to follow Vingegaard. Sky never won Omloop, Kuurne, E3, Gent, Dwars all in a row

 

[robbo]

I still wonder how come he was outdoped by Jumbo in 2022, , UAE was clearly overconfident. I have a feeling that we will see Pogacar 2.0 in July, La Planche des Belles Filles 2020 is a trifle, serious power is coming...

 

[trevim]

I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles

I don't think even the author of that quote believes this

Sky's strenght would be annihilated by Jumbo now. Froome wouldn't be able to follow Vingegaard. Sky never won Omloop, Kuurne, E3, Gent, Dwars all in a row

Yes that's part of my point, as ridiculous as Sky were, even they look somehow believable these days. It's crazy really

 

[Gwbert]

I just hope there‘s no motor doping involved, that would do it for me.

Well there was a bike change for a slow puncture before he attacked…

 

[pastronef]

I don't think even the author of that quote believes this


Yes that's part of my point, as ridiculous as Sky were, even they look somehow believable these days. It's crazy really

and, as I argued a lot about on here, is, in your opinion, the difference of the harsh treatment of Sky back then and the current Jumbo scrutiny but without the Sky obsession, due to the fact Sky shouted "clean" "different" "marginal gains" from their high horses?

 

[Ripper]

It's interesting to see just how much of a pog circle jerk cafe is occurring in the racing forum. Especially ironic how so many comparisons of pog are to well-known dopers (the cannibal, ja-ja, etc).

 

[Nick2413]

It's interesting to see just how much of a pog circle jerk cafe is occurring in the racing forum. Especially ironic how so many comparisons of pog are to well-known dopers (the cannibal, ja-ja, etc).

I think people don’t care. Or it’s the mentality that everyone is on the same stuff.

I do think everyone winning anything is on a program, but he seems to be a full tier above everyone else so something bigger is in the equation. It’s tough because I like him as a racer and I accept doping as part of the sport, but it feels very lopsided.

 

[saganftw]

I think people don’t care. Or it’s the mentality that everyone is on the same stuff.

I do think everyone winning anything is on a program, but he seems to be a full tier above everyone else so something bigger is in the equation. It’s tough because I like him as a racer and I accept doping as part of the sport, but it feels very lopsided.

if you must juice, better be aggressive...thats why SKY era was so annoying to watch, but watching Pogacar is at least fun because he is not trying to control the race, Jumbo is partially guilty of this as well, i always have the feeling they would love to kill racing if they could, but van aert is always a step behind either pog or MVDP and we will see about vingegaard in tdf this year

its more WWE than sport at this point, but i also believe they will never bust a big name again, its bad for business

 

[Nick2413]

its more WWE than sport at this point, but i also believe they will never bust a big name again, its bad for business

Yep. I used to think anti doping efforts were legit but when you ask yourself who actually benefits from catching anyone, the answer is no one. Not even the anti doping agencies have incentive to catch anyone, they’d be solving the problem they’re supposed to be fighting. The only incentive is to keep things from getting so crazy that people are dying in their sleep or the sport becomes too unbalanced for any parity.

 

[Extinction]

Maybe Pogi is still at a modest 70%, as Gianetti said in March, and will have 100% only in July

He can't be that far off top form for Flanders through the Ardennes. And even for MSR he could not have been only 70% after winning PN. Gianetti, as if this were at all surprising, is full of sh-it.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Giane

He can't be that far off top form for Flanders through the Ardennes. And even for MSR he could not have been only 70% after winning PN. Gianetti, as if this were at all surprising, is full of sh-it.

Obviously I wasn't serious in my post. For 2 months he's been close to 100% (for his current weight).
After an altitude camp and trimming down a bit he may be somewhat better w/kg wise.

 

[Rackham]

It's interesting to see just how much of a pog circle jerk cafe is occurring in the racing forum. Especially ironic how so many comparisons of pog are to well-known dopers (the cannibal, ja-ja, etc).

For me the conversation begins & ends with the cannibal.

Merckx is such a joke when it comes to the legacy of substance abuse in the sport, so no wonder these young riders do whatever it takes to win, just like Eddy did.

I hate the hypocrisy in cycling, where some riders are vilified & others are held up as legendary GOATs. I mean just imagine for one second Pog is eventually caught with his hand in the cookie jar (le pot belge!). What next? A outpouring of anger & media outlets talking about how we were all conned... then once the dust settles it's back to business & it's all about how great Eddy Merckx, Bernard Hinault & the rest of the past legends were.

We knew we were in deep sh*t from the moment Lance's downfall became all about how bad he was a human being or how he had a 'sophisticated doping program unseen before' (words to that effect). It was a way for everyone else to basically handwave their own transgressions by downplaying their substance use & behavior by comparison.

 

[Rob5091]

I still wonder how come he was outdoped by Jumbo in 2022, , UAE was clearly overconfident. I have a feeling that we will see Pogacar 2.0 in July, La Planche des Belles Filles 2020 is a trifle, serious power is coming...

Remember UAE had multiple problems with riders and equipment at the Tour. The fact that Majka was injured when his chain broke just about summed it up. That meant McNulty and Bjerg were doing insane long pulls at the front of the peloton - how, is a clinic question. Every time Pogacar attacked he was on his own whereas Jumbo were smart and had men up the road (WvA normally) and with Vingegaard/Roglic. Plus, it was the fastest ever Tour and UAE were lucky that Pogacar is such an opportunist.

 

[Rob5091]

Guys (and gals) sit back and enjoy the show, or you'll all go down with an aneurysm or something equally terrible.

 

[veganrob]

and, as I argued a lot about on here, is, in your opinion, the difference of the harsh treatment of Sky back then and the current Jumbo scrutiny but without the Sky obsession, due to the fact Sky shouted "clean" "different" "marginal gains" from their high horses?

The difference for me, and probably many others is we don't care any more. Cycling was dirty in Lance era. Still continued to Sky era. I was one to detest all the BS from them. Now a new era of filth. The racing is sooo boring. Same *** over and over again. It's worn me out. I don't even care about the drug fueled racing any more.

 

[Cookster15]

The difference for me, and probably many others is we don't care any more. Cycling was dirty in Lance era. Still continued to Sky era. I was one to detest all the BS from them. Now a new era of filth. The racing is sooo boring. Same *** over and over again. It's worn me out. I don't even care about the drug fueled racing any more.

Cycling has always been dirty, long before Lance. Sure, you can give up but I say it’s important that some semblance of controls are maintained. Some boring racing in the 90s too even with unchecked EPO use. Only Marco came along to prevent us dying from Big Mig dominance. But some of us still prefer individual talent to obviously manufactured talent.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Cycling has always been dirty, long before Lance. Sure, you can give up but I say it’s important that some semblance of controls are maintained. Some boring racing in the 90s too even with unchecked EPO use. Only Marco came along to prevent us dying from Big Mig dominance. But some of us still prefer individual talent to obviously manufactured talent.

But to be fair, none of us really knows who's actually a pure talent and who's "manufactured". It's not like doping isn't a thing in the junior and U23 ranks. Not all riders get the best training, equipment or drugs before they hit the pro ranks, and other riders struggle with injuries, or lacking tecnique and tactical skills, which they might be able to overcome later in their careers.

And then there's also the fact that some riders can easier get away with doping than others, because either they or their teams are too big and important to get caught by the UCI or by their national federations, which then might make them look like bigger talents than other riders with the same kind of "natural" level, who possibly would use the same stuff if they could get away with it.

 

[Netserk]

Cycling has always been dirty, long before Lance. Sure, you can give up but I say it’s important that some semblance of controls are maintained. Some boring racing in the 90s too even with unchecked EPO use. Only Marco came along to prevent us dying from Big Mig dominance. But some of us still prefer individual talent to obviously manufactured talent.

From Festina to Operación Puerto to Contador getting busted to Landis taking down Armstrong, there were some years where anti-doping, or the police, gained if not the upper hand then more of an equal footing with the dopers.

It has only gone one direction since then.

So that context has clearly changed over the past decade.

 

[Extinction]

For me the conversation begins & ends with the cannibal.

Merckx is such a joke when it comes to the legacy of substance abuse in the sport, so no wonder these young riders do whatever it takes to win, just like Eddy did.

I hate the hypocrisy in cycling, where some riders are vilified & others are held up as legendary GOATs. I mean just imagine for one second Pog is eventually caught with his hand in the cookie jar (le pot belge!). What next? A outpouring of anger & media outlets talking about how we were all conned... then once the dust settles it's back to business & it's all about how great Eddy Merckx, Bernard Hinault & the rest of the past legends were.

We knew we were in deep sh*t from the moment Lance's downfall became all about how bad he was a human being or how he had a 'sophisticated doping program unseen before' (words to that effect). It was a way for everyone else to basically handwave their own transgressions by downplaying their substance use & behavior by comparison.

I don't see what Lance being a thoroughly disagreeable guy has to do with it, other than karma. What interests me more is if Gianetti can perservere without any mishaps? A better version of Bruyneel, in other words. Although Johan, to be fair, wasn't to blame for Lance's downfall, but the latter's own douchbagery. Although perhaps they were accomplices in malice.

 

[glassmoon]

wild guess - he will sacrifice today's win in order to not raise (even) more suspicion in certain circles...

 

[QuickZulu]

Early bets on how many TDF stages he'll win? At this rate he'll take all 4 jerseys!

 

[GuntherL1]

That was hilarious. Yet again. I lost my interest for a while during the Armstrong era. It's about to happen again.

 

[acm]

Wait for LBL, when he'll drop Remco who's straight from training camp