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Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

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Well, I've never seen GT before where the 'massive favourite' wins 5 stages, gets on the podium 8 times and finishes in the top 20 twelve times and never has a difficult moment. It's almost as bad as in Catalunya where he made a fool out Landa, Vlasov, Mas and Kuss. Let me guess: 3rd tier riders, right?
This is a result of a generational talented rider +3rd tier riders in a race of 21 days.
 
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Well, I've never seen GT before where the 'massive favourite' wins 5 stages, gets on the podium 8 times and finishes in the top 20 twelve times and never has a difficult moment. It's almost as bad as in Catalunya where he made a fool out Landa, Vlasov, Mas and Kuss. Let me guess: 3rd tier riders, right?
Well Landa, Vlasov and Mas are not stronger riders than those currently behind Pog at this Giro. You’d could make a case for Kuss on last year’s Vuelta but Landa was convincingly beaten by Jai Hindley two years ago.

You’d have more credibility if you commented about any other rider - including Vingegaard? You are certainly not impartial and this is the biggest issue I have with your opinion as the OP. A thread on Pog would have been posted by someone else anyway after the 2020 TdF knowing what happened on stage 20 and the sport’s history. But other posters are not so myopic IMO. For example we know @Froome is a big Vingegaard fan here but way more fair and objective.
 
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This is a result of a generational talented rider +2rd tier riders in a race of 21 days.

Fixed it for you. Explained in another post.

+ something else

Just saying 😉🤔

It ain't all just generational talent baby!

Apparently Teddy (by accident) drank a bit of orange juice before PDBF, which won him the Tour in 2020. The effects were unbelievable so he keeps doing it. But it's a top secret so shhhh...
 
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PS: The thing is Armstrong could not have lived with Pantani, had Madonna di Campiglio never happened. Marco would have made Lance extremely nervous, with his nous for the right moment to attack, unpredictability (the Texan liked to have everything under control, but with Pantani that's not possible) and his indomitable will. Pantani was one tough son-of-a...in cycling terms, who would not have been intimidated, nor bullied into submission and Lance knows it. Pantani, without Madonna di Campiglio, would have been US Postal's worst nightmare, other than Ullrich.
Truly
Robbed of one of the greatest cycling battles of all
Time. Armstrong and Pantani set their times alone,
Imagine how hard they would have had to push if they had someone on their wheel.
 
Exactly and that would have driven Armstrong insane. Let's remember, Armstrong never had to deal with a peak Pantani, who, unlike Ullrich, would have made him lose hair and given him sleepless nights.
Armstrong looked really cranky when Pantani dared to challenge him on Ventoux in 2000. I think he also made some narky comments afterwards. Yet Marco was clearly at a lower level by the 2000 TdF after what happened at Madonna di Campiglio.
 
Even so, Pantani dropped Armstrong on courchevel right?

He was already zillion minutes behind. Armstrong, who crushed Pantani in Hautacam, didn't have to react. OTOH Pantani's suicidal attack during the next stage to Morzine made Armstrong very nervous and likely caused his bonk on Joux Plane (probably forgot to eat properly). Pantani in top form could've definitely made Armstrong nervous more often and beaten him during at least one edition. Still, Armstrong would have been hard to beat in most years other than 2003. I.e. In 2001 he was incredibly strong in the mountains, even Pantani would have had hard time creating gaps then while Armstrong would have crushed him (like he crushed Ullrich and co.) in the last super-long ITT.
 
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He was already zillion minutes behind. Armstrong, who crushed Pantani in Hautacam, didn't have to react. OTOH Pantani's suicidal attack during the next stage to Morzine made Armstrong very nervous and likely caused his bonk on Joux Plane (probably forgot to eat properly). Pantani in top form could've definitely made Armstrong nervous more often and beaten him during at least one edition. Still, Armstrong would have been hard to beat in most years other than 2003. I.e. In 2001 he was incredibly strong in the mountains, even Pantani would have had hard time creating gaps then while Armstrong would have crushed him (like he crushed Ullrich and co.) in the last super-long ITT.
It's something we can only imagine. Point is that with 50+ km TTs Armstrong had a buffer, but Pantani at full flight in the mountains, during years we never got to see, when he could have been even better, would have wreaked havoc on the Texan.
 
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It's something we can only imagine. Point is that with 50+ km TTs Armstrong had a buffer, but Pantani at full flight in the mountains, during years we never got to see, when he could have been even better, would have wreaked havoc on the Texan.
I am glad the mods gave us the freedom to discuss Pantani here. Its amazing we have these vivid memories over 20 years later. I hope a few younger fans take note. I am not Italian, and I deplore doping to gain an unfair advantage, but I believe Marco Pantani was a generational talent who was a victim of the times. I will never forget his feats and his demise is a great tragedy.
 
I am glad the mods gave us the freedom to discuss Pantani here. Its amazing we have these vivid memories over 20 years later. I hope a few younger fans take note. I am not Italian, and I deplore doping to gain an unfair advantage, but I believe Marco Pantani was a generational talent who was a victim of the times. I will never forget his feats and his demise is a great tragedy.
I started racing in 82, came to Italy in 95, then learned how cycling works. It is what it is, but Pantani was a sacred monster. As Greek tragedy goes, you can't fly too close to the sun unless you are protected by the gods.
 
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Armstrong looked really cranky when Pantani dared to challenge him on Ventoux in 2000. I think he also made some narky comments afterwards. Yet Marco was clearly at a lower level by the 2000 TdF after what happened at Madonna di Campiglio.
LA had no respect for Pantani. In the interview with Peter Attia, he states the only rival he feared & kept him up at night was Ullrich. He mentions Beloki & how he felt sorry for him reference his career-ending crash. But not a peep about the Pirate.
 
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Armstrong had no respect for Pantani. In the interview with Peter Attia, Armstrong states the only rival he feared & kept him up at night was Ullrich. He mentions Beloki & how he felt sorry for him reference his career-ending crash. But not a peep about the Pirate.
Well, obviously he didn‘t fear Pantani because he knew that Pantani was a mentally broken drug addict. He would have learned to fear Pantani if the ’90s Pantani had ever showed up to one of the 2000s Tours. Besides 2000, GC Armstrong never even faced Pantani. We also wouldn‘t see Indurain constantly talking about LeMond or Merckx about Anquetil because they didn‘t race each other much.
 
I am glad the mods gave us the freedom to discuss Pantani here. Its amazing we have these vivid memories over 20 years later. I hope a few younger fans take note. I am not Italian, and I deplore doping to gain an unfair advantage, but I believe Marco Pantani was a generational talent who was a victim of the times. I will never forget his feats and his demise is a great tragedy.
Bro , i am the youngster here learning about history of cycling and i think everybody here love Marco and tell me to watch his legendary attacks. I wonder what will be the result if Marco was compete against jonas / pog in this era of cycling? Who would win tour Marco or any of this 2 alliens ( sorry for my english but im drunk a little bit right now and is not my first language
 
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LA had no respect for Pantani. In the interview with Peter Attia, he states the only rival he feared & kept him up at night was Ullrich. He mentions Beloki & how he felt sorry for him reference his career-ending crash. But not a peep about the Pirate.
He disrespect Marco in interview after Ventoux that giving him the stage was mistake. Marco said„ Pantani didnt need armstrong to win , he need mountains” and then 2-3 days after he attack on Courchevel
 
Well, obviously he didn‘t fear Pantani because he knew that Pantani was a mentally broken drug addict. He would have learned to fear Pantani if the ’90s Pantani had ever showed up to one of the 2000s Tours. Besides 2000, GC Armstrong never even faced Pantani. We also wouldn‘t see Indurain constantly talking about LeMond or Merckx about Anquetil because they didn‘t race each other much.
My point is from that interview with Attia, he said he didn't fear anyone but Ullrich. In fact, he said Ullrich was the "most talented rider" that he's ever seen. And how can you argue with a 7-time Tour winner. He pretty much smoked everyone - he could climb with the best, a time trial talent & he had tremendous skill staying out of crashes.

It would have been interesting to see him battle it out with Big Mig (at his prime of course). That would have been the battle of the century; Mano a Mano!