Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[kingjr]

Pantani's 95 and 97 times up AdH are also faster than Armstrong's TT in 04

 

[Peyroteo94]

If we had a MTT on Grappa, Pogacar would be under 51 minutes.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

I would expect a 26,8 km TT to go faster than a 184 km stage with a double ascent.
The two fastest times on the Mont Ventoux came from the TT in theDauphiné 2004. None of the TdF climbs ever came close, not in even the EPO years of 1994 and 1999.
That tells you how 'special' Pogacars performance was today.

Speed & Glory on Mont Ventoux: TOP 50 fastest rides on the Giant of Provence

© Cyclingnews/John Pierce 1. 2004: 55:51 Iban Mayo 23.10 km/h 2. 2004: 56:26 Tyler Hamilton 22.86 km/h 3. 1999: 56:50 Jonathan V...

www.climbing-records.com

26 km TT just means you‘re already pushing for a few kilometers before the climb and they also had to do another kilometer to the very top of Grappa

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Pantani's 95 and 97 times up AdH are also faster than Armstrong's TT in 04

90s times were much faster than anything before and after, Pantani or no Pantani. Mt Ventoux TTs clearly suggest that for such long climbs a standalone performance is better due to even pacing: just look how for first few km Pelizzarri advantage didn't change much due to slower UAE pace-makers. Alpe ITT was also great: Armstrong beat his own spectacular 2001 climbing, so did Ullrich vs 2001. There's no doubt in my mind that Pogacar could have ridden even faster in a standalone TT.

 

[kingjr]

90s times were much faster than anything before and after, Pantani or no Pantani. Mt Ventoux TTs clearly suggest that for such long climbs a standalone performance is better due to even pacing: just look how for first few km Pelizzarri advantage didn't change much due to slower UAE pace-makers. Alpe ITT was also great: Armstrong beat his own spectacular 2001 climbing, so did Ullrich vs 2001. There's no doubt in my mind that Pogacar could have ridden even faster in a standalone TT.

Ullrich's 2001 climb was unimpressive anyway, he barely gapped Beloki and Christophe Moreau.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Ullrich's 2001 climb was unimpressive anyway, he barely gapped Beloki and Christophe Moreau.

Kloden's time in ITT 2004 (was third with a large gap to Armstrong and Ullrich) was almost as good as Mayo's climb the year before though.

 

[Red Rick]

90s times were much faster than anything before and after, Pantani or no Pantani. Mt Ventoux TTs clearly suggest that for such long climbs a standalone performance is better due to even pacing: just look how for first few km Pelizzarri advantage didn't change much due to slower UAE pace-makers. Alpe ITT was also great: Armstrong beat his own spectacular 2001 climbing, so did Ullrich vs 2001. There's no doubt in my mind that Pogacar could have ridden even faster in a standalone TT.

What also happens is you get a false idea of pacing cause if everybody follows the group at first when they try to set up Pogacar initially nobody will drop when a Grosschartner is doing like 5.9-6W/kg

Pogacar is meanwhile saving >0.1W/kg very consistently on the 60% of the climb before he attacks.

 

[Red Rick]

To me the problem with Ventoux is it's an extremely wind dependent climb to make a strong comparison between MTT versus road stage.

I think the 1st ascent is a much bigger factor, and I also think that the difference for a guy who is below threshold the entire first ascent is likely gonna be under a minute.

 

[kingjr]

Kloden's time in ITT 2004 (was third with a large gap to Armstrong and Ullrich) was almost as good as Mayo's climb the year before though.

I've lost track of what point either of us is making, but in 2003, Mayo was the only one who wasn't bad that day.

 

[Ripper]

It was an alien performance FFS. End of a GT, one of the fastest if not the fastest ever Giro, double ascent, only launched it part way up, and absolutely torched everyone.

There are going to be a lot of "yeah, buts", it for anybody who does the math, it adds up to ultra dodgy poop filled diaper performance.

 

[Ripper]

Keep in mind greedy mouse really did go for it in the second time trial. And just about made it. He was really trying to win as many stages as he could

 

[Ripper]

Finally, I don't even think performances like this bother me terribly much. The circle jerk of fanboys over any particular doper is, however, perplexing.

 

[BullsFan22]

Finally, I don't even think performances like this bother me terribly much. The circle jerk of fanboys over any particular doper is, however, perplexing.

3 straight comments about the performance tells me that it does, in fact, bother you terribly.

 

[GuntherL1]

Ventoux was a MTT in 1987. In a normal stage in 1994, Pantani was nearly 4 minutes faster.

Fast era beats slow era, MTT or not.

Are you really comparing pre-EPO era with peak EPO era?

 

[Ripper]

3 straight comments about the performance tells me that it does, in fact, bother you terribly.

I tuned in after watching some live mountain biking and had a few minutes!

On the other hand, you care greatly about adding no value to this thread whatsoever 😉

 

[Red Rick]

It was an alien performance FFS. End of a GT, one of the fastest if not the fastest ever Giro, double ascent, only launched it part way up, and absolutely torched everyone.

There are going to be a lot of "yeah, buts", it for anybody who does the math, it adds up to ultra dodgy poop filled diaper performance.

I'm sorry sir, we're not questioning if it's an ultra dodgy poop filled diaper performance, we're trying to gauge if it's more ultradodgypoopy than all the other ones

Finally, I don't even think performances like this bother me terribly much. The circle jerk of fanboys over any particular doper is, however, perplexing.

The worst is when they get a Nathan van Hooydonck on commentary and get him to tell you how cleanz Pogacar is.

 

[Ripper]

I'm sorry sir, we're not questioning if it's an ultra dodgy poop filled diaper performance, we're trying to gauge if it's more ultradodgypoopy than all the other ones


The worst is when they get a Nathan van Hooydonck on commentary and get him to tell you how cleanz Pogacar is.

That's funny! Nathan was providing some color commentary?

 

[Red Rick]

That's funny! Nathan was providing some color commentary?

Yeah he was on Dutch/Flemish Eurosport first then he moved to UK Eurosport

 

[Ripper]

Yeah he was on Dutch/Flemish Eurosport first then he moved to UK Eurosport

Did he talk about JJ?

 

[Red Rick]

Did he talk about JJ?

About who?

I didn't catch most of his appearance tbh. And I shut it off when the whole Pogi cleanz bs started

 

[Froome]

Double ascent and his team doesn't have enough climbers to put a insane pace for 30 minutes.

Didn't you said today that Emirates team on this race was really good?

 

[Ripper]

About who?

I didn't catch most of his appearance tbh. And I shut it off when the whole Pogi cleanz bs started

JJ = Jonas.

I think that's a professional rider, you need a certain level of cognitive dissonance to cope

 

[Netserk]

Are you really comparing pre-EPO era with peak EPO era?

That's the point.

Like comparing 2014 times and 2024 times.

 

[AmRacer]

one of the fastest if not the fastest ever Giro

When Alpecin and other teams raced like crazy ever stage the first 1-2 hours.....

 

[AmRacer]

That's the point.

Like comparing 2014 times and 2024 times.

Or 1964