Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Froome]

After this Giro we should be vigilant on others

I think its an arms race. 2020 TdF stage 20 wasn't supposed to happen - that Tour was going exactly to JV's plan until that day. So Visma upped the ante. Now UAE / Pog are responding.

On my original comment, there can be murmurs in the peloton. Examples I recall were Vinokourov's 2007 TdF stage 13 TT win and Riccardo Ricco's 2008 (CERA fueled) performances. There was talk in the peloton before it became public.

Honestly something is going on since 2020, but my take is they are taking doping.....but legal doping, something who is not banned. Something ethically wrong, but legal.

Just my take. I don’t believe they are risking with something illegal at least yet, but i can be wrong....

 

[Red Rick]

By leeway, I mean from the public.

Public bought Wiggins, Froome, all of Sky they'll buy anything.

 

[ivanic]

After this Giro we should be vigilant on others

I think its an arms race. 2020 TdF stage 20 wasn't supposed to happen - that Tour was going exactly to JV's plan until that day. So Visma upped the ante. Now UAE / Pog are responding.

On my original comment, there can be murmurs in the peloton. Examples I recall were Vinokourov's 2007 TdF stage 13 TT win and Riccardo Ricco's 2008 (CERA fueled) performances. There was talk in the peloton before it became public.

2020 TdF stage 20 is like Fleche 1994 or Val Louron 1991.

It's been almost four years and it's time to know what they use.

 

[Netserk]

Public bought Wiggins, Froome, all of Sky they'll buy anything.

Somewhat. Less so than they buy Van der Poel, UAE & Visma.

 

[Froome]

2020 TdF stage 20 is like Fleche 1994 or Val Louron 1991.

It's been almost four years and it's time to know what they use.

All started during covid, and it's funny in 2019 the level looked worse than in the previous years.

 

[kingjr]

All started during covid, and it's funny in 2019 the level looked worse than in the previous years.

Pre-Covid van der Poel and van Aert were still in the process of transitioning to road cycling, and Pogacar was too young to make much of an impact pre-Covid, aside from his 3rd place at the Vuelta.

 

[Red Rick]

Somewhat. Less so than they buy Van der Poel, UAE & Visma.

And that's crazy to me. Even if you ignore absolute W/kg numbers and buy into all the bs about 'riders are just better now'. Relative dominance going up to the extreme degree doesn't make you question anything?'

But nah. Doping is reverse nuclear fusion, it was always 20 years ago, guys are cleanz now no matter what happens. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. If it looks like a turd and smells like a turd it's probably chocolate ice cream so Imma eat it.

 

[zlev11]

I had this argument with @The Hitch over 10 years ago here. The point Hitch made then was enjoy the show. The riders and teams will tell us if anything unfair is going on.

what show? what kind of show is watching a guy ride away for 2+ minutes on the climbs multiple times and then also beat everyone in the time trials? who wants to watch that? other than fanboys

 

[kingjr]

what show? what kind of show is watching a guy ride away for 2+ minutes on the climbs multiple times and then also beat everyone in the time trials? who wants to watch that? other than fanboys

The fact that, out of all the riders who have won a GT in the past 5 years, he is the only one participating, may have something to do with it.

 

[zlev11]

The fact that, out of all the riders who have won a GT in the past 5 years, he is the only one participating, may have something to do with it.

ok? the weak field has nothing to do with it. he posted "enjoy the show" when "the show" is a big steaming pile of turds. RCS filling up the trough with slop for all of us little piggies to suck down.

 

[kingjr]

ok? the weak field has nothing to do with it. he posted "enjoy the show" when "the show" is a big steaming pile of turds. RCS filling up the trough with slop for all of us little piggies to suck down.

It has something to do with a guy riding "away for 2+ minutes on the climbs multiple times"

 

[zlev11]

It has something to do with a guy riding "away for 2+ minutes on the climbs multiple times"

and so does doping

 

[zlev11]

And that's crazy to me. Even if you ignore absolute W/kg numbers and buy into all the bs about 'riders are just better now'. Relative dominance going up to the extreme degree doesn't make you question anything?'

But nah. Doping is reverse nuclear fusion, it was always 20 years ago, guys are cleanz now no matter what happens. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. If it looks like a turd and smells like a turd it's probably chocolate ice cream so Imma eat it.

grand tours over after 2 days. classics over with 50+ k to go. just enjoy the show

 

[kingjr]

and so does doping

That may well be the case. I'm glad, at any rate, that you have come around to my point of view.

 

[Nomad]

Honestly something is going on since 2020, but my take is they are taking doping.....but legal doping, something who is not banned. Something ethically wrong, but legal.

Just my take. I don’t believe they are risking with something illegal at least yet, but i can be wrong....

Are you talking about a dietary supplement(s), or an actual pharmaceutical(s) that's not on the banned list? (whatever that may be).

What about EPO microdosing & plain old blood transfusions? I do a lot of research on doping on the athletics side of things. If look at professional distance running the substances where the vast majority of the bans are coming from are: 1) rEPO, 2) Blood transfusions (ABP hematological anomalies cases) & 3)Testosterone/Nandrolonoe. And it's really been this way for years now with dopers trying to figure how to maximize their doping program while flying under the radar of the ABP.

If it's something legal & not banned with the cyclists, what on Earth could that be? What is the "big secret" with a legal substance(s)? I don't see how a legal substance(s) could be kept so clandestine. Athletes, coaches, trainers, etc, love to gossip & with social media these days, they have a platform to do all that talking on. Lol

EPO & testosterone have been one of the popular stacks with endurance athletes for decades. Matt Mosman, MS, of EndurElite explains why this cocktail is so popular with athletes:

View: https://youtu.be/o5uNN8fwCQE?si=G8ZUO3MgS_piZBUG

 

[Ripper]

Why? He is universally popular. Why Pogacar is popular should not be difficult to comprehend.

Contador was super popular. If you don't like cycling don't watch it. And the fact is Pogacar was convincingly beaten by Vingegaard at the last two TdF. So I don't understand your obsession with Pogacar - if I go to the Vingegaard thread I don't see you there during the Tour - why not?

I had this argument with @The Hitch over 10 years ago here. The point Hitch made then was enjoy the show. The riders and teams will tell us if anything unfair is going on.

Nobodies perfect? But I do have a few moments, so ...

I do not find it curious why he is popular. I find fanboyism and desiring alien performances to be the odd thing. I likely post less during the Tour because I check out more during that race, and sometimes I'm on vacation I still post about JJ Viggo, but I post more about Taddy year round because he does his thing more year round. I thought last year I posted about both of them, but perhaps my memory is wrong? Or perhaps I posted about Viggo on a different thread (still in the clinic)? It is not like I find his performances believable

A while back I posted about Contadope and Piti, although much more about Piti when he was digging a hole with denial when he was popped. And the Chicken, and the Froomenator, etc. I do tend to pick on riders who seem to be able to do everything and win everywhere all year long.

I do enjoy the show. I also feel it is absolutely fair game to call out freakshows and preposterous stuff, which is what I think the clinic is for. As do you, I think? On the flip side, you might post more about Viggo than Poggi in the clinic, but that could just be my perception?

The riders and teams have dropped that ball before, so I am not so sure. I mean, it was not the riders nor the teams that busted Pharmstrong or some of the other more prolific folks.

I was quite enjoying the U23 XCO stuff today though. Nove Mesto is a cool course!

 

[zlev11]

That may well be the case. I'm glad, at any rate, that you have come around to my point of view.

well no, i was very aware of the weak field at this race. i just really dislike the direction that cycling is headed. it's become more about fanboying-out at single riders dominating than embracing actual competition. you saw it with Kuss at the Vuelta last year. to me that was really eye opening, to see the vast majority of fans actually wanting team orders rather than a race between the teammates. RCS fed this race to Pogacar on a platter; it was clear they just wanted "Pogacar doing Pogacar things" (i hate that phrase) rather than any kind of actual GC race. they paid the guy to show up and crap all over their race! it's insane to me. it's not very fun to watch.

 

[Froome]

Are you talking about a dietary supplement(s), or an actual pharmaceutical(s) that's not on the banned list? (whatever that may be).

What about EPO microdosing & plain old blood transfusions? I do a lot of research on doping on the athletics side of things. If look at professional distance running the substances where the vast majority of the bans are coming from are: 1) rEPO, 2) Blood transfusions (ABP hematological anomalies cases) & 3)Testosterone/Nandrolonoe. And it's really been this way for years now with dopers trying to figure how to maximize their doping program while flying under the radar of the ABP.

If it's something legal & not banned with the cyclists, what on Earth could that be? What is the "big secret" with a legal substance(s)? I don't see how a legal substance(s) could be kept so clandestine. Athletes, coaches, trainers, etc, love to gossip & with social media these days, they have a platform to do all that talking on. Lol.

Maybe something like that, or something like this, illegal but almost impossible to detect.

Tour de France rider tried to obtain marine worm haemoglobin for blood doping boost

'This is a product to look for in competition' French AFLD tells l'Equipe of super haemoglobin

www.cyclingnews.com

 

[topcat]

I'm sorry sir, we're not questioning if it's an ultra dodgy poop filled diaper performance, we're trying to gauge if it's more ultradodgypoopy than all the other ones


The worst is when they get a Nathan van Hooydonck on commentary and get him to tell you how cleanz Pogacar is.

It was absolutely cringe listening to van Hooydonck. Thankfully, I had the rugby to switch back to. A clown show and not even a fight for the minor places.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

cringe

topcat is a gen z confirmed

 

[senna6541]

Pre-Covid van der Poel and van Aert were still in the process of transitioning to road cycling, and Pogacar was too young to make much of an impact pre-Covid, aside from his 3rd place at the Vuelta.

And 2019 MVDP was in full beast mode in CX, MTB and while dabbling on the road - strongest guy in the race at RVV, absolutely smoking
Alaphilippe at Brabantse Pijl, Amstel Gold win, and dominating Tour Britain. He actually came back from covid way off form. If anyone has the known genetic history and career progression to suggest no doping, it's MVDP. Who knows what the deal is, but if everyone in the peloton is clean, he is still easily the best one day racer in the world. Best bike handler, go for broke killer instinct, and pretty obvious God-given physical talent. Winning 150+ elite CX races is probably not a bad way to build the top end either.

 

[Nomad]

Maybe something like that, or something like this, illegal but almost impossible to detect.

Tour de France rider tried to obtain marine worm haemoglobin for blood doping boost

'This is a product to look for in competition' French AFLD tells l'Equipe of super haemoglobin

www.cyclingnews.com

Very Interesting...thanks for that link.

However, if the mechanism is the boosting of Hgb, wouldn't the athlete still be bounded by the upper limit thresholds of their individual ABP upper/lower parameters? A repeated breach of the upper limit thresholds of Hgb/Hct, RET%, RBCs, OFF-score, etc, can result in an ABP hematological anomalies case against the athlete.

Furthermore, would Pogacar & Vingegaard be the only riders currently using this? Or do you think it's widespread among the top GC guys as no one wants to be left behind with new & innovative performance boosting substances?

 

[Cookster15]

what show? what kind of show is watching a guy ride away for 2+ minutes on the climbs multiple times and then also beat everyone in the time trials? who wants to watch that? other than fanboys

You tell me? Were you here during the 2022 TdF? Polls of posters saying it was one of the most entertaining Tours. If you say so people. And just a reminder, of all the absurd things Pogacar has done, including his dominance against a mediocre field at this Giro, none of that comes close to Skeletor’s 2023 stage 16 TT - best time trial ever according to some? From a skinny skeleton climber? Better than Big Mig? The more I follow this sport the more I am convinced it’s WWF wresting on wheels. Enjoy the show folks, turn off your BS metres and don’t care if it’s real.

After I came to grips with Vingegaard I just tried to accept things and “enjoy the show”. Just like The Hitch was telling me back here back in 2011 or so. For some reason I find Pogacar more interesting to follow than Jonas.

 

[topcat]

topcat is a gen z confirmed

I'm gen z + 30 years

 

[QueenStagiaire]

topcat is a gen z confirmed

I think I would throw up before descending to ilmaestro‘s grammar