Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Samu Cuenca]

See, I dont think those higher levels of protection even really exist anymore, not between WT teams at least. Sure, a small fish gets caught every once in a (long) while. But the UCI realised a long, long time ago that actually catching a WT-level rider (let alone someone with Vingo's or Pog's status) is incredibly damaging to the sport, and therefor, their income.

Remember Armstrongs return? The UCI quite literally begged him not to come back. It was his hubris that forced their hand in the end. If the UCI had it their way, he never would have returned and more importantly to them, he never would have been exposed.

Sure, I agree, that it doesn't look like the UCI has much interest in catching any big names at the moment, but there are probably still differences in how much they're willing to defend certain teams and riders, in case the police, media and/or anti-doping authorities should suddenly get hold of any incriminating evidence (not that it seems very likely to occur these days anyway).

 

[Cookster15]

Pogacar is "way beyond" one of the biggest dopers in the history of cycling and you really doubt that he is using any substance. He is doing W/kg numbers that pretty much every exercise physiologist on record thought impossible and you really doubt that he is using any substance. He obliterated Vingegaard who you are certain that he is doping, in this year's TdF, hell, he is gotten to the point where he is pretty much doing a Landis Luz Ardiden-type-solo week in week out and you still "really doubt" if he is using any substance. ?!!!!

Blood manipulation doesn’t necessarily require “substances”. Most likely is the UCI are looking the other way as they did with Armstrong although I even struggle with that - why, what is the business case for that? Another possibility is Gianetti has taken blood manipulation to another level. That is where oil money might come into play. But substances can be detected if not immediately then certainly retrospectively. Even substances that disappear from the bloodstream can leave markers which risk detection in retrospective testing. A new substance is about as likely as motor doping IMO.

 

[Raest]

Blood manipulation doesn’t necessarily require “substances”. Most likely is the UCI are looking the other way as they did with Armstrong although I even struggle with that - why, what is the business case for that? Another possibility is Gianetti has taken blood manipulation to another level. That is where oil money might come into play. But substances can be detected if not immediately then certainly retrospectively. Even substances that disappear from the bloodstream can leave markers which risk detection in retrospective testing. A new substance is about as likely as motor doping IMO.

Yeah that's indeed plausible .

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

It's sad that you all stopped believing in the power of hard work, dedication, long hours in the saddle, and unicorns.

 

[ashhutch1997]

It's sad that you all stopped believing in the power of hard work, dedication, long hours in the saddle, and unicorns.

And nutrition!

 

[Blobs]

Blood manipulation doesn’t necessarily require “substances”. Most likely is the UCI are looking the other way as they did with Armstrong although I even struggle with that - why, what is the business case for that? Another possibility is Gianetti has taken blood manipulation to another level. That is where oil money might come into play. But substances can be detected if not immediately then certainly retrospectively. Even substances that disappear from the bloodstream can leave markers which risk detection in retrospective testing. A new substance is about as likely as motor doping IMO.

What is the business case for not bringing down their main attraction, and basically causing the whole sport to collapse?

Certainly tough one to crack.

 

[Gratemans]

Blood manipulation doesn’t necessarily require “substances”. Most likely is the UCI are looking the other way as they did with Armstrong although I even struggle with that - why, what is the business case for that? Another possibility is Gianetti has taken blood manipulation to another level. That is where oil money might come into play. But substances can be detected if not immediately then certainly retrospectively. Even substances that disappear from the bloodstream can leave markers which risk detection in retrospective testing. A new substance is about as likely as motor doping IMO.

What is the business case for not bringing down their main attraction, and basically causing the whole sport to collapse?

Certainly tough one to crack.

^

I mean no disrespect Cookster, but seriously, come on...

 

[Blobs]

Havent heard that yet.

Right here:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bQzUctkjX8&ab_channel=RadReporter

 

[Cookster15]

^

I mean no disrespect Cookster, but seriously, come on...

Why? What do you consider a substance to be? Substances are detectable. If they could detect what Contador got caught for? I’ve asked this question before here - what do we think they are doing? I asked after Covid there seemed to be a step up not just with Pogacar but the peloton. The consensus is always blood manipulation- not “substances”. Substances are old school.

 

[Cookster15]

What is the business case for not bringing down their main attraction, and basically causing the whole sport to collapse?

Certainly tough one to crack.

Sure, so why did they let him be become their main attraction? Way back when this thread started was the time to ask that question - 4 years ago. And the whole sport didn’t collapse with Armstrong’s demise.

 

[Nick2413]

Sure, so why did they let him be become their main attraction? Way back when this thread started was the time to ask that question - 4 years ago. And the whole sport didn’t collapse with Armstrong’s demise.

I doubt anyone could have predicted how far this has gone. They love the attention he’s getting for the sport but also have to be a bit nervous with how lopsided things have gotten. The point of no return has been passed though, if there really has been any collusion the most they can do is try to pump the breaks a little bit and get the other freaks back into the fray to make it look plausible. Or it’s completely being done without any “permissions” but they still have no incentive to investigate and shut it down or be liable for being in the know.

 

[Extinction]

I doubt anyone could have predicted how far this has gone. They love the attention he’s getting for the sport but also have to be a bit nervous with how lopsided things have gotten. The point of no return has been passed though, if there really has been any collusion the most they can do is try to pump the breaks a little bit and get the other freaks back into the fray to make it look plausible. Or it’s completely being done without any “permissions” but they still have no incentive to investigate and shut it down or be liable for being in the know.

The scandalous thing is that the journos are so passive. Gianetti-Matxin are running the show and all we hear are crickets. Where are the Paul Kimmages and David Walshes of today's journalism? It's shocking.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

The neoliberal era killed a lot of things, journalism included.

 

[Cookster15]

I doubt anyone could have predicted how far this has gone. They love the attention he’s getting for the sport but also have to be a bit nervous with how lopsided things have gotten. The point of no return has been passed though, if there really has been any collusion the most they can do is try to pump the breaks a little bit and get the other freaks back into the fray to make it look plausible. Or it’s completely being done without any “permissions” but they still have no incentive to investigate and shut it down or be liable for being in the know.

Fair enough.

 

[Oldermanish]

I doubt anyone could have predicted how far this has gone. They love the attention he’s getting for the sport but also have to be a bit nervous with how lopsided things have gotten. The point of no return has been passed though, if there really has been any collusion the most they can do is try to pump the breaks a little bit and get the other freaks back into the fray to make it look plausible. Or it’s completely being done without any “permissions” but they still have no incentive to investigate and shut it down or be liable for being in the know.

Just to be inquisitive: who are "they"? I haven't spent much time in the hollows of speculation.

 

[Salvarani]

Just to be inquisitive: who are "they"? I haven't spent much time in the hollows of speculation.

The illuminati. The people who run the world.

 

[glassmoon]

We've been down this road before. Nobody would say Armstrong or Froome were the most talented riders of their generation. Pogacar isn't either.
Where do we go from here?
I want to watch a race with unpredictability, competition and suspense. Especially, I want a race where I don't know the outcome in advance and I have to delude myself into watching saying maybe, just maybe.

wasn't LA the youngest WCH ever at that time? might be a lucky results and kinda one of sprint win (can't remember) but WCH is usually not easy to win.

 

[glassmoon]

So it seems that most guys here are certain that Pog is on something special that the others aren't on....... has anybody any idea??

Could motors be at play??? The attacks this man puts in are just bat-*** crazy.

well there was weird heated discussion between Pog's tech and commissaire who wanted to take Pog's bike when he was celebrating with Urska - it was just a brief moment of drone/heli shot but it did seemed weird. but can't see it possible that the uci will be so stupid to not check the bike he actually rode. that would be next level stupidity or ridiculous level of corruption.

 

[glassmoon]

He won by 30 seconds after a 100km escape and was obviously hurting in the closing kilometers. I really doubt motors.

this could be just an act to look less parodical - but yeah I doubt motors too (for other reasons though). he does that "hurting act" a lot and then in the finish he's fresh as a daisy when everyone is lying half dead on the ground barely able to breathe

 

[glassmoon]

The scandalous thing is that the journos are so passive. Gianetti-Matxin are running the show and all we hear are crickets. Where are the Paul Kimmages and David Walshes of today's journalism? It's shocking.

this!

 

[Coffeeplanter]

No way, especially when they always had more money than everyone.

It is not about money, it's about how far one is willing to take things. It's basically a scale, a constant balance between how much risk and reward is involved. Saunier Duval said balls to the wall and went all in. Funvic, a legendary team from the mid to late 2010's, said sod it, and went all in. Not the two most wealthy teams in history, right? They took too much risk, flew too close to the sun, and got caught for the obvious. Of course, that is the very same Saunier Duval team that was led by The Bald Brothers, Matxin and Mauro Voldemort.

This is where their genius comes into play, since they have been here before and know what errors they need to avoid at all costs. They have (successfully) attempted to create this character, this persona around Pogacar, who is universally liked and loved, making him almost impossible to break down. A stark difference with Armstrong or Sky in years past. Furthermore, Lapparient is desperate to get a promotion from UCI to IOC president. The last thing he could use right now is a doping affair against the most beloved rider of all, making it easy for UAE to up their levels. That's free gain right there.

Money doesn't do a thing until the last moment, for, if all else fails, the sheik will send his harem to Aigle, accompanied by bribes, which the UCI has its fair share of history with.

 

[Salvarani]

That there were no radios in the race also play a big part. It was just old school racing. Where the leaders end up riding their own race. Pog was the strongest and escaped. Was able to hold off the others with help Sivakov until the last 50km.

Combination of being the strongest, best tactics and no radio/tech that helped the others organise a chase.

The gap to others wasnt that huge in the end and they attacked like madmen. Wonder what they might be on.

 

[peterfin]

It is not about money, it's about how far one is willing to take things. It's basically a scale, a constant balance between how much risk and reward is involved. Saunier Duval said balls to the wall and went all in. Funvic, a legendary team from the mid to late 2010's, said sod it, and went all in. Not the two most wealthy teams in history, right? They took too much risk, flew too close to the sun, and got caught for the obvious. Of course, that is the very same Saunier Duval team that was led by The Bald Brothers, Matxin and Mauro Voldemort.

This is where their genius comes into play, since they have been here before and know what errors they need to avoid at all costs. They have (successfully) attempted to create this character, this persona around Pogacar, who is universally liked and loved, making him almost impossible to break down. A stark difference with Armstrong or Sky in years past. Furthermore, Lapparient is desperate to get a promotion from UCI to IOC president. The last thing he could use right now is a doping affair against the most beloved rider of all, making it easy for UAE to up their levels. That's free gain right there.

Money doesn't do a thing until the last moment, for, if all else fails, the sheik will send his harem to Aigle, accompanied by bribes, which the UCI has its fair share of history with.

I fear that's exactly the scenario that's being played here. UAE has the UCI in their pocket. They don't have the IOC in their pocket (yet) so Pogacar decided not to race the olympics although it was almost a sure win in his current shape.

There is also a motive: UAE being desperate to win the TdF again beating their nemesis JV. We know how eager they were to be first on the world ranking last year to have at least some consolation.

 

[Divergence]

He won by 30 seconds after a 100km escape and was obviously hurting in the closing kilometers. I really doubt motors.

I highly doubt he was hurting as much as he wanted to portray he was hurting. He gained 15s in 2km when he pressed on the pedals near the end.

 

[Zen Master]

Ricco is not comparable to Pogacar in results.

Alas, sixteen years ago some jealous people did not allow il Cobra to reach Pogačar's level of "greatness"…