Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Krzysztof_O]

But how did Pogacar come to UAE's attention in the first place?

He was a talent of course.

 

[Stablo]

If we compare pre UAE Pogacar to now, he is 100% out of nowhere.

This 100%! This season has been so disgusting. Tortured myself and watched the clown show today. Well at least saw again how easy the riding looks when you're over doped and every race also makes me more sure about the motor assistance. A very hard race and fresh as a daisy, at the end of a long season full of ET performances. Leaving a generational talent like Remco over three minutes behind 🤣what an absolute joke this has become.

 

[Rackham]

I found Pog way more 'endearing' (if one can use such a word to describe these guys) last year tbh. Aka when he actually had to 'fight'.

What's happened in 2024 is something I've never seen before, ever. All prior notions about peaking etc. have gone completely out the window. And when people mention Pog being a great natural talent, maybe so, I won't dispute that, but what's also true is UAE have absolutely smashed everyone this season. Sivakov was sh*tting all over the guys spat out behind Pog's attack today in Lombardia after he'd pulled to set up Pog's attack himself. I mean... come on guys, this has sophisticated and organized team doping written all over it.

BTW there's no 'lsser of two evils' or anything here, i.e. what Pog has done this season is basically take Vingegaard's impossible, laughable & grotesque Combloux performance... and do that practically all year. With some performances standing out versus others on the WTF am I watching scale.

 

[Casual cyclist]

So how did Gianetti know he was a super responder back then? Luck? Even so this takes more than super responding.

There must be an Armstrong factor (look the other way), else, I fear motors. He looks so fresh. Even if motors there must be some kind of corruption involved as I assume his bike would need to be checked. I refuse to believe you can hide a motor from a trained mechanic who knows what to look for - even magnetic assistance. And the relaxed confidence from Pog suggests he isn't worried about being caught.

Sorry, could not resist: No s**t, Sherlock.

 

[42x16ss]

If we compare pre UAE Pogacar to now, he is 100% out of nowhere.

Well, pre-UAE he was an espoir, and won L'Avenir and other stage races. So not out of nowhere, just not this reincarnation of Merckx

 

[42x16ss]

But how did Pogacar come to UAE's attention in the first place?

By winning L'Avenir and other races as an 18 yo? He's hardly a donkey to racehorse story, more like a Pantani style perfect storm of insane amounts of talent, dope, and ability to respond to that dope.

 

[Extinction]

Don't be so pessimistic. Remco was great - again. He's had his best ever season. Take a way Pog and we would be lauding Remco.

Great again? He lost three minutes against the homunculus. He was nowhere near even competative in all their confrontations. It's like Verrocchio never taking up the brush again, when he saw what Leonardo could do. The huge problem now is for Belgium and Lafevbre. Money is scarce and who wants to keep paying a champion's salary to a loser, who shall never win against the homunculus.

 

[Extinction]

By winning L'Avenir and other races as an 18 yo? He's hardly a donkey to racehorse story, more like a Pantani style perfect storm of insane amounts of talent, dope, and ability to respond to that dope.

He was a few days shy of 20 when he won Avenir

 

[PolkaDot1]

So another totally sickening day, with Pog killing the enjoyment in yet another beautifull race, which has become the norm this year. The silver lining, well at least it is over for some time.

What I want to point out is his newly founded speed on the flats this season. He does not just make the gap on the climb and hold it towards the line. No, he is putting masive time into his opponents on the flat while previously detonating the watt bombs on the climbs. Today, he put over a minute into Remco on that last part, i.e. the TT world and olympic champ, rider who excells in this type of efforts. And he did not kill himself trying to follow Pog, he just rode his race, so he could not have been possibly that spent. And as goes for Pog, it did not even seem he was trying that hard. He looked relax and I am certain he could have gone faster if neccessary. It is truly bizzare, especially when you take into account Pog's not really that aero position. While you see many riders really trying to lower the CdA, tucking extremelly low, twisting the handlebars to achieve as TT-like position etc. he is not even trying... I am more and more inclined to believe there might be something in the "mechanically-assisted" department. It would for sure made a lot of sense.

 

[Ripper]

Exactly. It's been just like that all year. So he either has 100+ (big plus) VO2 max or his means of propulsion is of some other nature than purely biological.

It was really interesting. He was smoking along, looking very untroubled and easy going, like he was full on just riding a tempo ride. I know that feeling very well. Smirks and says something to the moto/camera-person. And is putting time into everyone, including the world's supposedly best time trialist.

I mean, I know I am old and no longer racing elite, and was never a pro, but I'd settle for him looking like there is some level of physical effort going on. You know, breathing harder, possibly some sweat dripping, potentially some accessory muscles being used because of the higher effort levels, etc.

Nope

 

[topt]

One of the most succesfull season in cycling history, beating climbing records day in day out, winning races with historical solo breakaways as it was usual... and everything with Gianetti and Matxin behind close doors.

I wrote a message during last Tour about Matxin: this is his "modus operandi" and he is not going to stop. This time they are not in a random team like Saunier Duval, they are under the protection of a massive sponsor which is investing a lot of money to be the best and that's what are they doing, just being men o a mission.

I have to recognize that I don't watch a race where Pogaçar is involved since mid Tour de France. It is so obvious what is going to happen that I don't want to get frustated. I have been cycling fan since I was a kid and I never had the felling of being wasting my time watching a WWF show.

P.D.: I do believe in electronic or motor doping, just take the example of Foliforov in the Giro 2016 ITT.

yet you have no problem watching Jonas win, interesting

 

[Casual cyclist]

Who is "they" and why aren't they keeping up with Pogačar?

Easy. Toddy's bike has been given a big motor this year accompanied by a carte blanche for its unlimited use. His chasers, on the other hand, have had to endure either a motor-free spell or get by with relatively token motors with limited use authorization. Appears to be part of the "Smiley, kids-loving superman" scenario played out by the "Pro-cycling Inc." entertainment industry company geared towards "generating excitement, expanding fan base,... blah-blah" goal. Likely fueled by some healthy cash transfers from UAE to governing bodies.

 

[Ripper]

As for UAE and talent identification and recruitment, I suspect they just recruit talented riders and got luckier with pogger compared to, say, ayuso (at least so far). Response to whatever is going on is not a known beforehand.

The only thing I could envision that might be more in the territory of conspiracies and weirdness is that perhaps Matxin and Gianetti have a way of screening the moral ethics of riders so they know who might be more willing to try somethin' a little different

Just sayin'

 

[GuntherL1]

Yes, it's also true for almost any cyclist at his peak vs his 19 yo version though.

Really? Evenepoel, Van der Poel, Uijtdebroeks, Kämna (2nd junior year)

 

[Casual cyclist]

So another totally sickening day, with Pog killing the enjoyment in yet another beautifull race, which has become the norm this year. The silver lining, well at least it is over for some time.

What I want to point out is his newly founded speed on the flats this season. He does not just make the gap on the climb and hold it towards the line. No, he is putting masive time into his opponents on the flat while previously detonating the watt bombs on the climbs. Today, he put over a minute into Remco on that last part, i.e. the TT world and olympic champ, rider who excells in this type of efforts. And he did not kill himself trying to follow Pog, he just rode his race, so he could not have been possibly that spent. And as goes for Pog, it did not even seem he was trying that hard. He looked relax and I am certain he could have gone faster if neccessary. It is truly bizzare, especially when you take into account Pog's not really that aero position.

The famous "coal miner" position first noted by the incredulous Tom D. at TDF 2020 final TT. And in "zone 2" while in the said position running away from top time trialists.

While you see many riders really trying to lower the CdA, tucking extremelly low, twisting the handlebars to achieve as TT-like position etc. he is not even trying... I am more and more inclined to believe there might be something in the "mechanically-assisted" department. It would for sure made a lot of sense.

That's the power output for ya... Overcoming even the "barn door" aerodynamics (think Dodge Durango Hellcat), not even stressing his biological engine while putting out those 600 watts or so. But, if half of those come from the aforementioned "mechanically-assisted" means, it all starts making perfect sense, doesn't it?

 

[Amazinmets87]

Pog is nearly two years younger than Lance was when he won his first TDF. This could go on a long, long time.

 

[solo80k]

When we check overall wins only, in 2024 Pogacar was successful in 9 out of 11 races, with 3rd place in MSR and 7th in Montreal as the weakest results.

Whatever he's using, it's possible to use it all season long, peaking multiple times at his will. To be honest, he's body changed a little - he's more muscled-up now. His core training needs to be excellent as well- he's not swinging on the bike.

 

[Blanco]

Too good to be true...,

 

[Amazinmets87]

When we check overall wins only, in 2024 Pogacar was successful in 9 out of 11 races, with 3rd place in MSR and 7th in Montreal as the weakest results.

Whatever he's using, it's possible to use it all season long, peaking multiple times at his will. To be honest, he's body changed a little - he's more muscled-up now. His core training needs to be excellent as well- he's not swinging on the bike.

Yea, I noticed that about his physique. He doesn't look freakishly thin as many pro cyclists do. He looks like a relatively thin man with defined muscles.

 

[Fos]

Why race with motor aid and raise questions day after day with outrageous performances? I think it would be better to use it at very specific times to avoid suspicion...

I rule out biological doping because Tadej would already be dead since he is always at his best, and not just 3 weeks in a year.

 

[peterfin]

Why race with motor aid and raise questions day after day with outrageous performances? I think it would be better to use it at very specific times to avoid suspicion...

I rule out biological doping because Tadej would already be dead since he is always at his best, and not just 3 weeks in a year.

They don't care about being suspicious. They are not really challenged sofar. The story of 'Pogacar, the greatest talent in cycling ever' is good enough to keep the media and the masses exited.

 

[Casual cyclist]

When we check overall wins only, in 2024 Pogacar was successful in 9 out of 11 races, with 3rd place in MSR and 7th in Montreal as the weakest results.

Whatever he's using, it's possible to use it all season long, peaking multiple times at his will. To be honest, he's body changed a little - he's more muscled-up now. His core training needs to be excellent as well- he's not swinging on the bike.

Or, that could be just the result of not pushing on those pedals all that hard. Which -- surprise, surprise -- aligns well with him not breathing hard and joking with camera folks while on an "extraterrestrial" attack nobody else can follow.

 

[peterfin]

It's good that this boring season is over. Lets see what they develop next year and who made the best updates to the system. It's like watching a parody on Drive to Survive. Anyway, I am not taking risks. I am going to start zone 2 training this winter.

 

[Gratemans]

It's good that this boring season is over. Lets see what they develop next year and who made the best updates to the system. It's like watching a parody on Drive to Survive. Anyway, I am not taking risks. I am going to start zone 2 training this winter.

I was going to type the exact same thing: I'm just glad this season is over.
Jeesh, at least with Lance there was an ever-so-tiny bit of doubt at the back of my mind. Here? None whatsoever.

 

[E_F_]

It's good that this boring season is over. Lets see what they develop next year and who made the best updates to the system. It's like watching a parody on Drive to Survive. Anyway, I am not taking risks. I am going to start zone 2 training this winter.

Remember to eat lots and lots of sugar as well!

How do you make sure to stay in zone 2? Ride an e-bike.