Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[scribers]

A negative cannot be proven. The onus is on the claimant is on proving a positive.

I might have accidentally entered the wrong area of the forum .

 

[theyoungest]

Some cycling podcasts are starting to parrot ''Pogacar needs to show us that he is clean'' which got me thinking of the possibility of Visma influecing these podcasts under the table and 5 minutes later the podcast is sponsored by Silica which is a Team-Visma partner and the one of the hosts talked about how he got invited to one of Vismas facilities and talked about his visit there

One thing is for sure, Visma has influence over many cycling podcasts and youtube channels, either by hiring them or indirectly sponsoring them.

Yeah, I'm sure there's no companies involved with UAE for example who also sponsor cycling related content...

Some people are a litte too obsessed.

 

[FrontHeadlock]

I reckon we'll be visiting this thread after tomorrow's stage lads.

This thread is now more exciting than the TdF.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

I might have accidentally entered the wrong area of the forum .

I've moved you to the correct area...

 

[Cookster15]

Meanwhile, today's performances are even more staggering than in the Wiggins/Froome era

Wiggins/Froome/Sky era is not even close to what we are seeing. Sky's level is way overestimated IMO. Of course conditions and race day tactics matter but I always look at Alpe D'Huez climbing times as a general guide to compare eras:

• When Sky launched Geraint Thomas to win on the Alpe in 2018 it took 41 minutes to climb that mountain.
• In 2022 Thomas finished with Pogacar and Vingegaard in 39 minutes.
• After 2024 PdB who would bet against Pog and Vingo demolishing Marco's record of 36'40"?

 

[FrontHeadlock]

Some cycling podcasts are starting to parrot ''Pogacar needs to show us that he is clean'' which got me thinking of the possibility of Visma influecing these podcasts under the table and 5 minutes later the podcast is sponsored by Silica which is a Team-Visma partner and the one of the hosts talked about how he got invited to one of Vismas facilities and talked about his visit there

One thing is for sure, Visma has influence over many cycling podcasts and youtube channels, either by hiring them or indirectly sponsoring them.

Well, there are plenty of non-Visma influenced media and fans who are asking the same thing. How can you not?

 

[scribers]

A negative cannot be proven. The onus is on the claimant is on proving a positive.

I might have accidentally entered the wrong area of the forum .

This audience here is different.

Believe what you'll wish!

And may god sort it out.

 

[ashhutch1997]

All the talk will be in the Johnny Vinegar-thread!

I hope, don't think I've posted on there since the Combloux ITT.

 

[Cookster15]

I hope, don't think I've posted on there since the Combloux ITT.

Why would you hope?

 

[ashhutch1997]

Why would you hope?

Because I want to see JV try and do a Landis.

 

[Cookster15]

Because I want to see JV try and do a Landis.

Had to change from a 'like' to a 'sad' reaction. We all know how the Landis day ended (and why). I think JV tried something like that on Ventoux but Pogacar was too good. Not sure what is truth but Pogacar did say after Ventoux that he tried to hold a little in reserve.

 

[Ripper]

Pog is not one of the bad dopers hes a good doper precisely because he does not frown, yell, or chase down Siomeoni in a breakaway one time (the ultimate sin).

This is so funny because it is rooted in truth! Up until this year, Pog has been a one man PR machine. Young, smiles a lot, seems innocent, has fun, extrovert, has an near relatable charisma. Nice, nice, nice

This year the shine is coming off. He is not longer the GT underdog against Jonas (in fact, everyone is an underdog against Pog, in every race). He wins literally almost everything. He smiles less. He is more physically mature (less baby faced). He dominates even when he does not win (not always the best look to sprint and unnecessarily gain a few seconds when you have minutes). And it does not help that some of his team are just getting a bit too 'bully-ish'

 

[Ripper]

@SorelyBoy i guess that depends on what you read into the bigger narrative, given the pretty damning picture being painted by the Rozman case is indeed correct. Because how on earth is anyone supposed to believe the performances of today, if the mules of the mid 2010's had to resort to such complicated doping to achieve their pedestrian performances. Cause let's be honest, Nils Politt of the last two years would be a Tour winning contender in 2018 and 19.

lolz!

 

[Ripper]

And MVDP actually has the normal physiological supercompensation, periods of decreased fitness et cetera. Unlike Pogacar. I honestly believe MVDP is clean.

I used to believe MvdP was quite doped up. I am less sure now! I mean, he very well could be, but comparatively, he still has very human responses to workload. And his performances don't totally defy logic (most of the time).

 

[ashhutch1997]

Had to change from a 'like' to a 'sad' reaction. We all know how the Landis day ended (and why). I think JV tried something like that on Ventoux but Pogacar was too good. Not sure what is truth but Pogacar did say after Ventoux that he tried to hold a little in reserve.

As a kid growing up, I will always remember coming home from school and seeing Landis do what he did. IMO it's the greatest stage I've ever seen, and you can't take away how I felt watching that stage.
They were all doping back then, and IMO it's just as bad now, I'd at least like to see an insane comeback.
I think we'll more likely get a situation like Ullrich and Virenque at Courchavel in 97 where JV attacks on Madeline but Pogacar follows and they finish together, but Pog winning

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Surely after 2023 he's got tomorrow marked as the day to go all in, get his revenge, and win the tour.

 

[Cookster15]

As a kid growing up, I will always remember coming home from school and seeing Landis do what he did. IMO it's the greatest stage I've ever seen, and you can't take away how I felt watching that stage.
They were all doping back then, and IMO it's just as bad now, I'd at least like to see an insane comeback.
I think we'll more likely get a situation like Ullrich and Virenque at Courchavel in 97 where JV attacks on Madeline but Pogacar follows and they finish together, but Pog winning

I am similar but it was Marco Pantani's victory over Jan Ullrich in 1998. Stage 15 of that Tour was the single greatest stage I have followed - and yet we all know what was going on back then. The day after Pantani stuck to Ullrich like a limpet. Maybe we see similar tomorrow with Pog and Vingegaard. I think Ventoux was a taste.

 

[Lorzenz08]

Pogacar with the same bike as Pantani is 5 minutes slower on Ventoux.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Pogacar with the same bike as Pantani is 5 minutes slower on Ventoux.

But the bike Mayo would have ridden in 2004 would most definitely be lighter than Pogacar's areo bike. They were having to add weights to those bikes, and at the end of the day, power to weight is what matters on these climbs.
People act like the bikes of the mid 2000's were ancient but they were lighter than today's bikes.
Current bikes are overatted and heavy. IMO the best bikes in terms of weight and aerodynamics was the last generation of rim brakes, around 2018/19. I can tell you this from experience, they are a marketing scam.

 

[snipeheem]

I am similar but it was Marco Pantani's victory over Jan Ullrich in 1998. Stage 15 of that Tour was the single greatest stage I have followed - and yet we all know what was going on back then. The day after Pantani stuck to Ullrich like a limpet. Maybe we see similar tomorrow with Pog and Vingegaard. I think Ventoux was a taste.

Stage 15 at 98 Tour till this day is greatest stage ever. I dont know how many times i watched it. Marco was God that day

 

[ashhutch1997]

What's crazy is that Pantani and Ullrich actually look human compared to Pogacar or even Jonas Vingegaard..

 

[snipeheem]

What's crazy is that Pantani and Ullrich actually look human compared to Pogacar or even Jonas Vingegaard..

This is crazy but u are right.. i wonder if any of them will be ever caught.

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

Pogacar with the same bike as Pantani is 5 minutes slower on Ventoux.

Yeah, absolutely not, the Bianchi of those times were just as light (even lighter as a matter of fact) as the current bikes, they were stiff as hell, tubular from that time vs recent tires might explain a ten watts difference or thereabout, aero is pretty marginal at the speed they climb.
The recent bikes/tires are a far better rounded package as a whole, but as far as pure climbing goes the margin is really thin.

 

[Rob5091]

It's amazing that people are still giving it the old "aero socks make them faster" spiel.

 

[Ripper]

It's amazing that people are still giving it the old "aero socks make them faster" spiel.

Well Rob5091, if that is indeed your name, I can tell you that I have some aero socks and I think they have made me approximately 2 seconds (2!!!!) faster on a TT course I regularly ride that is roughly 30 minutes. And I look extra pro while doing it (so long as you ignore the middle aged dad gut). Not quite as much as a gain as the wheels or helmet, but dammit, I am faster in my non-evidence-based analysis.

I wonder how much faster I would get for those silly sunglasses that have the aero nose covering?