Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

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Well too bad Pogi leads by 5 minutes else we could see quite some demonstration on stage 17 to the Col du Portet . I guess he will hold back to save for the TT. Weather is staying quite cool for him too which is exactly what he likes.
 
Well too bad Pogi leads by 5 minutes else we could see quite some demonstration on stage 17 to the Col du Portet . I guess he will hold back to save for the TT. Weather is staying quite cool for him too which is exactly what he likes.
He will win MTF, he already has one ITT. Now winning a mountain stage will look fine.

But he won't demolish competition of course, just 30-60 gap to the next best GC.
 
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I read his statement about being tested 3 times in one day. That does sound like target testing to me ? But maybe every leader in TdF would be target tested ? For comparison I remember Norwegian cross country skiers complaining that there is not enough testing, that there can be weeks or even months between tests.

Anyway, I'm thinking that if he is on something surely doping while at the tour is too risky these days ? Doping should be most likely done during preparation, as testing will be much more unlikely ?
 
QUOTE="Armchaircyclist, post: 2597537, member: 26440"]
I read his statement about being tested 3 times in one day. That does sound like target testing to me ? But maybe every leader in TdF would be target tested ? For comparison I remember Norwegian cross country skiers complaining that there is not enough testing, that there can be weeks or even months between tests.

Anyway, I'm thinking that if he is on something surely doping while at the tour is too risky these days ? Doping should be most likely done during preparation, as testing will be much more unlikely ?
[/QUOTE]
3 times?!? That seems excessive but I guess harder to fake a result.

Do they just do urine drug screening or hair follicles as well?
 
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Are they still doing hi
3 times?!? That seems excessive but I guess harder to fake a result.

Do they just do urine drug screening or hair follicles as well?

I presume there are daily COVID tests and the standard mechanical doping test, so perhaps he is including them in his figure. Hell, let's not forget the weight doping of bikes that has to be tested for too.
 
Bardet, Pinot and Valverde had a closer gap after the 2nd rest day compared to this edition.
To find a bigger gap you have to go all the way back to 2000, Armstrong had 7:26 on Ulrich and 7:28 on Beloki. Mr Armstrong learned to tone down the gap and his average gap going on the 3rd week for the next tours was around 2-3 min.
I saw this graphic on twitter on the rest day (here):

E6EilcuXMAAz98t
 
this was one of the most impressive perfomances in yellow jersey, most of time you see yellow to just defend, dont make efforts if you dont need to, but pog just rode because he could, no worries about recovery, no worries about cumulation of fatigue, he had 0 incentive to ride with both of them on his wheel and he would have won the stage anyway

you would need a monumental performance to gain just 30 seconds on pogacar, he is 3 levels above competition
 
I read his statement about being tested 3 times in one day. That does sound like target testing to me ? But maybe every leader in TdF would be target tested ? For comparison I remember Norwegian cross country skiers complaining that there is not enough testing, that there can be weeks or even months between tests.

Anyway, I'm thinking that if he is on something surely doping while at the tour is too risky these days ? Doping should be most likely done during preparation, as testing will be much more unlikely ?

No sir, he is probably using a newer masking agent which hides the "micro dosages" for sure under a strict regimented doctor and team management order. Aicar and a new masking agent would be my guess
 
No sir, he is probably using a newer masking agent which hides the "micro dosages" for sure under a strict regimented doctor and team management order. Aicar and a new masking agent would be my guess

That sounds very reasonable, but would such a program be enough to explain this performance?

And micro-dosing during the Tour sounds really *** risky also, regardless of how good the regiment is.
 
Yeah, Pogachar is on some sort of illegal program.

Would I be captain obvious if I said they're all doing "illegal" stuff? I mean it's pretty evident a huge proportion of pro teams have a concept of cycling which the people who introduced dope control all those decades ago do not share (i.e. enhancing performance with medicine).

It's kind of weird that we're even having this repeat conversation from 20 years ago (i.e. "Lance is doped etc.") because the bottom line is I cannot look at the list of Tour de France winners (like... since forever) & say "that's when these guys were riding bread & water!". In the 1980's for example they didn't yet have EPO, but they still used amphetamines, anabolic steroids & testosterone. All banned substances. The glory of the Tour (& its popular heroes) was built by guys who dodged the "rules".

I think it's probably time to look at the rules, the people who make those rules & ask the how & why regarding their own role in cycling tbh, i.e. I don't care if this makes me unpopular because as far as I'm concerned all the guys I've watched since childhood were on a program. So who's at fault? The riders who make the race or the people behind the scenes who make the rules which apparently no one follows?

It's just funny to me how we'll be having the same conversation every year, i.e. "xyz is clearly doping!". I only ask that no extra advantages be given to certain people. I also ask that the hypocrisy regarding other sports ends (i.e. vilification of cycling as a "doped" sport whilst football, tennis, athletics, F1 racing etc. get a free pass).

Edit: and yes, I understand certain riders have better response to doping (i.e. for example when riders with a low hematocrit benefitted most from the EPO boost), but the actual peloton itself (i.e. the guys who do the riding) seemed to just shrug that one off.
 
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It's kind of weird that we're even having this repeat conversation from 20 years ago (i.e. "Lance is doped etc.") because the bottom line is I cannot look at the list of Tour de France winners (like... since forever) & say "that's when these guys were riding bread & water!". In the 1980's for example they didn't yet have EPO, but they still used amphetamines, anabolic steroids & testosterone. All banned substances. The glory of the Tour (& its popular heroes) was built by guys who dodged the "rules".

Ah, the glory of the Tour was actually built by guys who took whatever the *** they wanted because there were no rules against it, and the glory was furthered by guys who actively and openly fought against imposing any rules because they demanded the right to improve their performance with whatever they want.

But I suppose we are beyond wanting to watch methed out junkies drag themselves up the mountains in zig-zag...