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Oh man, it's almost painful to see the guy cross the finish line with mouth barely open.
You'd think everyone would at least try to suspend disbelief by telling the guy to look like he was completely spent at the finish.
Remember the days when everyone said Andy Hampsten was clean as a whistle? His winning performance at the top of Alpe d'huez back in the late 80's early 90's makes me think there is a very remote possibility he was clean when watching his post-stage win interview. Guy was coughing his guts out and could barely say a word before answering a question. He was done. You could tell the guy put everything on the table to win the stage.
Now here we have TP who looks like he just returned from the corner store to fetch some milk.
Not normal.
You'd think everyone would at least try to suspend disbelief by telling the guy to look like he was completely spent at the finish.
Remember the days when everyone said Andy Hampsten was clean as a whistle? His winning performance at the top of Alpe d'huez back in the late 80's early 90's makes me think there is a very remote possibility he was clean when watching his post-stage win interview. Guy was coughing his guts out and could barely say a word before answering a question. He was done. You could tell the guy put everything on the table to win the stage.
Now here we have TP who looks like he just returned from the corner store to fetch some milk.
Not normal.
If we are going to go down this route I just hope we actually get someone who can go with him properly and make it all out sprints on the MTFs like Chicken and ClenbuterolUAE & Bahrain Merida have elevated their game to match INEOS & JB in less than a year's time. But the "curious case" of Pogacar is beyond belief.......
2 Tours already at 22 y.o. .......................... and he's just beginning to PEAK
well, surley it must be doping, he is the worst finisher of the bunch on top of the climb today; man if we will go this route after every Pogi win, well lets just say we will be here for a VERY long time.
- Sep 14, 2009
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I think folks have learned a bit about not going way over the top. Not like Maxtin and Giannetti are new to this. Not that this tour hasn't been ridiculous, but ripping up the climbs and adding another 5 minutes would have been pointless and raised way, way too many questions.
- Sep 14, 2009
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- May 14, 2017
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I really don't understand what you're trying to do in this thread. All these vague hints at trying to defend Pog are incredibly tedious. There's plenty of Lance related material all over the internet from years of forum wars you can easily repurpose, why not show more commitment to the bit and start by throwing some of that stuff back into the mix?
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- Mar 17, 2009
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I don't see why he shouldn't , couldn't or wouldn't at this point.
The cat is already out of the bag, so what difference does it make another stage win in the great scheme of things?
- Sep 14, 2009
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Setting aside what it seems obvious, It's fair to say that beyond his "program", Pogacar has displayed enormous talent as a cyclist by the way he handled last year's tour with no team support.
My perception of Pogacar's case is that here we have an extremely talented, gifted, skillful rider among the best of the best cyclists of his generation, using the latest, most powerful, most efficient "program" to this date. He is truly head and shoulders above everyone at the moment.
My perception of Pogacar's case is that here we have an extremely talented, gifted, skillful rider among the best of the best cyclists of his generation, using the latest, most powerful, most efficient "program" to this date. He is truly head and shoulders above everyone at the moment.
- Apr 14, 2021
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It's not like your “camp” is any better. You are building your case around the fact that Pogacar is better than the rest. Which is kind of the point of any sport. And now this completely subjective rating of how tired he looks. Like it’s impossible to fake it. Ask Carapaz…
But to get to the point - not everyone who doesn’t agree with you is prepared to defend Pogacar. I may think he’s as clean as the next guy but wouldn’t bet a dime on that let alone get emotionally involved on the forum. But that doesn’t mean I find your arguments any more convincing…
edit: and by “you/your” I don’t mean you personally. I mean your camp
- May 14, 2017
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What?It's not like your “camp” is any better. You are building your case around the fact that Pogacar is better than the rest. Which is kind of the point of any sport. And now this completely subjective rating of how tired he looks. Like it’s impossible to fake it. Ask Carapaz…
But to get to the point - not everyone who doesn’t agree with you is prepared to defend Pogacar. I may think he’s as clean as the next guy but wouldn’t bet a dime on that let alone get emotionally involved on the forum. But that doesn’t mean I find your arguments any more convincing…
edit: and by “you/your” I don’t mean you personally. I mean your camp
- Apr 10, 2019
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Dr Millan has already coached Ayuso for over a year and is saying that his values are comparable to Pogi.
Curious to see what they'll get out of him next year.
Curious to see what they'll get out of him next year.
- Apr 14, 2021
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You were telling @topt to show some commitment in defending Pogacar. I'm trying to tell you that not agreeing with the arguments presented against Pogacar here does not neccessarily mean one is defending him. It might just be that one finds the arguments insufficient...
Cookster15
Moderator
- May 14, 2011
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Can't see why he wouldn't win the TT and drill it.
Nibali was the last to win a Tour by over 7 minutes. I think Tadej will get close. Vingegaard is next best GC rival as we saw in the first TT. Then he was just 27 seconds off the Pog. But looking at the utter ease of Pogi's win on Luz Ardiden I think he will put close to a minute on Vingegaard this time. Incredible 3rd week recovery we are seeing.
- Feb 1, 2011
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- Feb 1, 2011
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I sorta sympathise with what you're saying btw, and with topt too. I don't know if he/she is slovenian or just likes Pogacar for whatever reason, but yeah, what can you plausibly say in defense of him when the opposing side only has circumstantial evidence (at best) to work with either? What could a reasonable answer to that look like other than "nuh uh"?
Indeed, the arguments against him are "insufficient", unfortunately, I think everyone in the Clinic would like to have more to work with.
This is pretty much my take on Pogacar. He's also been the beneficiary of a lot of "luck," if you want to call it that. I mean, by my count 2/3-3/4 of his competition have crashed out or been injured, not to mention that a lot of teams' support riders (TJV, for instance) are out or are really subpar (Porte? Hello?).
That doesn't negate what we're seeing -- but it magnifies it in my mind. We saw what happened last year at the Giro when the level is generally lower than expected; take away TP at the Tour and it would be a weak top 10 minus Carapaz, who's missing the typical Ineos-level support. Of course it's easy to be seen as tactically brilliant if you're head and shoulders physically above the rest...
Regarding doping programs, I'm more a believer in super-responders. He also seems to be a naturally robust athlete (thick legs, resistant to cold).
- May 14, 2017
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topt's constant posting in this thread is quite transparently defending Pogacar without explicitly defending him if you get what I mean. Each to their own I guess, I'd just personally find it more entertaining for them to go down the "never tested positive", "I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles" etc route.
The fact that Pogacar is yet to attract that sort of a fanbase (at least from what I can tell) probably speaks to the lack of a compelling narrative. Small, relatively low profile country with no real prospects for market expansion, not as marketable as Sagan, no cancer or other strange illnesses. He's just a winning machine.
Why wait to next year? He's scheduled to race San Sebastian and some of the Italian late season 1-day races. I expect an Ayuso thread this side of the forum rather soon.
- Apr 14, 2021
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I know what you mean, yes - but it is difficult to put your "reputation" on the line defending a cyclist against doping accusation. I mean what do all those people who vigorously defended Armstrong do once he's admitted to be doping? And you can never be sure with those guys. I'm a big Roglič fan but I will never defend him against doping because - well, you just never know. I will, however, point out that the case against him has no real substance at the moment.
That being said, I understand it's frustrating to be Pogi's accuser because there is no real resistance and it's much more fun if there are 50 guys on this forum you can say "I told you so" once/if they catch him with his pants down.
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