Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Eeslliw]

Can't wait for the weekend when for the cherry on the cake Pogi will make Remco looking like a amature cyclist. Solo 30 km win incoming.

 

[Riek s]

That was hilarious. Yet again. I lost my interest for a while during the Armstrong era. It's about to happen again.

On the other hand this has been the least suspicious thing i have seen from him this year (isolating everything else). (He took 0 seconds on landa).

Of course looking at it from a bigger view since the beginning of the year :x

 

[BR2]

I'm at the point where it's starting to get entertaining. Pogacar's season so far:
Starting the season with a one day race with gravel: win.
Andalucia: GC win and 3 stages
Paris-Nice: GC win and 3 stages
MSR: 4th
E3: 3rd
Ronde van Vlaanderen: win
Amstel: win
FW: win

I am not sure he will win Liège and the Tour, simply because there he will meet other aliens who are also targeting those races as highlights of their season. It seems impossible to not have a planned decline/downtime at one point in the season or some unplanned fatigue come the Tour.

However it looks like UAE is going for THE historical season with him and it will be interesting to see whether they will succeed.
Will the UCI let this go on? And does their behaviour change depending on whether he wins it all?

SHOULD he win Liège and the Tour that would be the craziest season a rider ever had I think. It would clearly beat Merckx imo due to a much bigger base of professional riders.

 

[Riek s]

I'm at the point where it's starting to get entertaining. Pogacar's season so far:
Starting the season with a one day race with gravel: win.
Andalucia: GC win and 3 stages
Paris-Nice: GC win and 3 stages
MSR: 4th
E3: 3rd
Ronde van Vlaanderen: win
Amstel: win
FW: win

I am not sure he will win Liège and the Tour, simply because there he will meet other aliens who are also targeting those races as highlights of their season. It seems impossible to not have a planned decline/downtime at one point in the season or some unplanned fatigue come the Tour.

However it looks like UAE is going for THE historical season with him and it will be interesting to see whether they will succeed.
Will the UCI let this go on? And does their behaviour change depending on whether he wins it all?

SHOULD he win Liège and the Tour that would be the craziest season a rider ever had I think. It would clearly beat Merckx imo due to a much bigger base of professional riders.

Why not include Il lombardia again to finish the year ?
And if he is motivated, the WC which is 2 weeks after the tour. (Maybe something like Remco did with Vuelta and WC but without the jetlag))

 

[BR2]

On the other hand this has been the least suspicious thing i have seen from him this year (isolating everything else). (He took 0 seconds on landa).

Of course looking at it from a bigger view since the beginning of the year :x

It was a very cool effort, he went at exactly the right time, didn't overcook at any point and could celebrate without a doubt that he had won. In a race that is clearly not his trademark unlike for people like Valverde, Alaphilippe or Roglic. For this specific race at this specific point this was nothing but utterly convincing. We might say "it's only Landa and Skelmose" again, but if we look at the people in the top 20 he left behind him, there's still a LOT of quality for this race.

 

[BR2]

Why not include Il lombardia again to finish the year ?
And if he is motivated, the WC which is 2 weeks after the tour. (Maybe something like Remco did with Vuelta and WC but without the jetlag))

All of this is so extreme, seems impossible but then the boundaries of what's possible are so unclear now... I have no idea which of the possible scenarios will actually happen.

 

[Riek s]

All of this is so extreme, seems impossible but then the boundaries of what's possible are so unclear now... I have no idea which of the possible scenarios will actually happen.

At this point i don't know how to rule it out. He is not getting tired. (he has been dominating since the beginning of the year as you indicated). I can't remember when we had someone riding RVV/AGR/WP/LBL and content for the win. (winning the last 3 is already an extremely hard thing to do).

Maybe he won't win LBL, but i don't see him not on the podium bar accidents/problems.
Tour same thing, maybe he doesn't win it, but not on the podium?
WC is maybe the most difficult one given the position right after the tour. For some people it helps, for others its a huge dip.
il lombardia, i think is feasible . (same as LBL imo)

 

[rghysens]

wild guess - he will sacrifice today's win in order to not raise (even) more suspicion in certain circles...

Wrong guess....

 

[hfer07]

 

[Extinction]

At this point i don't know how to rule it out. He is not getting tired. (he has been dominating since the beginning of the year as you indicated). I can't remember when we had someone riding RVV/AGR/WP/LBL and content for the win. (winning the last 3 is already an extremely hard thing to do).

Maybe he won't win LBL, but i don't see him not on the podium bar accidents/problems.
Tour same thing, maybe he doesn't win it, but not on the podium?
WC is maybe the most difficult one given the position right after the tour. For some people it helps, for others its a huge dip.
il lombardia, i think is feasible . (same as LBL imo)

Nobody has ever won that combo, not even Merckx. I'll give UAE and Gianetti credit for one thing, they are thinking outside the box. They know how explosive Pog is and how well he handles every terrain, thus it's natural they gambled on him cleaning house in the classics this spring. Of course, this isn't the cycling of 40 years ago when the GT Bigs also rode the classics to win. Hence the fields after Flanders haven't been stellar. Yet if he destroys Evenepoel in Liege on Sunday, I'll start to think UAE is up to something beyond what the others are doing.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Teddy was 5 seconds slower than Ala and Bala, definitely a clean performance by Le Patron. Obviously a good night sleep was enough to recover from AGR (something that Pidcock was clearly missing).

 

[Red Rick]

Teddy was 5 seconds slower than Ala and Bala, definitely a clean performance by Le Patron. Obviously a good night sleep was enough to recover from AGR (something that Pidcock was clearly missing).

Mur is so short that starting speed has a pretty big effect.

And they entered the final km very slowly because of a huge headwind on false flat stretch.

 

[Netserk]

Teddy was 5 seconds slower than Ala and Bala, definitely a clean performance by Le Patron. Obviously a good night sleep was enough to recover from AGR (something that Pidcock was clearly missing).

It was the fastest time (together with Teuns last year) with Cherave before the Mur.

 

[Netserk]

I'm more interested in his weight now. In Ronde he was what? 2 kg heavier than in the Tour, yet now he is the best on the Mur. Imaging if he prepared for the Ardennes optimally.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

@Red Rick @Netserk

Yup and the wind was pretty bad on the run-in to Mur indeed. Obviously I was joking anyway.

 

[Red Rick]

I'm more interested in his weight now. In Ronde he was what? 2 kg heavier than in the Tour, yet now he is the best on the Mur. Imaging if he prepared for the Ardennes optimally.

It's whatever. I think he only goes that light for the Tour anyway.

Evenepoel was over his Vuelta weight in Liege as well.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

It's whatever. I think he only goes that light for the Tour anyway.

Evenepoel was over his Vuelta weight in Liege as well.

Yup, he doesn't need his lowest weight to crush Tirreno and Paris-Nice climbs. Neither he does in hilly classics.

 

[Panda Claws]

Nobody has ever won that combo, not even Merckx. I'll give UAE and Gianetti credit for one thing, they are thinking outside the box. They know how explosive Pog is and how well he handles every terrain, thus it's natural they gambled on him cleaning house in the classics this spring. Of course, this isn't the cycling of 40 years ago when the GT Bigs also rode the classics to win. Hence the fields after Flanders haven't been stellar. Yet if he destroys Evenepoel in Liege on Sunday, I'll start to think UAE is up to something beyond what the others are doing.

Well yeah AGR was a meme race in Merckx' day

 

[Cookster15]

I'm more interested in his weight now. In Ronde he was what? 2 kg heavier than in the Tour, yet now he is the best on the Mur.

Out of curiosity, how do we know Pog was 2kg heavier at Ronde than the Tour - did he claim that? As for the Mur, its a fast but short effort - meaning anaerobic lactic energy system is utilized more than on long climbs? Being super lean would help but punch could over come that I think?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Out of curiosity, how do we know Pog was 2kg heavier at Ronde than the Tour - did he claim that? As for the Mur, its a fast but short effort - meaning anaerobic lactic energy system is utilized more than on long climbs? Being super lean would help but punch could over come that I think?

At Flandres he said he weighted 67 kg and stated that his Tour weight is "a few kilos less". Not precise but suggestive.
Mur is like a 800 m or 1500 m run more than a long-distance run. One needs explosivity and also ability to maintain an incredibly intense effort (high VO2max). Such an effort is pure suffering: pain in legs, gasping for air, heart pounding. That's why Pog was breathing so hard at the finish. Reduced mass should help on such a steep gradient though (if not gained at the cost of explosivity).

 

[Cookster15]

At Flandres he said he weighted 67 kg and stated that his Tour weight is "a few kilos less". Not precise but suggestive.
Mur is like a 800 m or 1500 m run more than a long-distance run. One needs explosivity and also ability to maintain an incredibly intense effort (high VO2max). Such an effort is pure suffering: pain in legs, gasping for air, heart pounding. That's why Pog was breathing so hard at the finish. Reduced mass should help on such a steep gradient though (if not gained at the cost of explosivity).

Thanks, that all makes sense. Yes the analogy to middle distance running is why I mentioned aerobic lactic system. No doubt it also requires sky high VO2 max.

 

[Riek s]

Thanks, that all makes sense. Yes the analogy to middle distance running is why I mentioned aerobic lactic system. No doubt it also requires sky high VO2 max.

Purely anaerobic capacity is outside the scope of vo2max (which is basically a number for your aerobic capacity).
But i guess it matters in how long you can postpone going in anaerobic phase.

 

[Cookster15]

Purely anaerobic capacity is outside the scope of vo2max (which is basically a number for your aerobic capacity).
But i guess it matters in how long you can postpone going in anaerobic phase.

Yes. But VO2 max is also above FTP (maximum sustained power for 1 hour). Obviously the thresholds and how long and far above these you can hold varies from person to person, pros to amateurs, age etc. But a steep but short climb like Mur only lasts what - less than 3 minutes for best pros (posted somewhere in the Forum)? That’s not a purely aerobic effort.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

What they do at the end of Mur is obviously above VO2max but the overall intense effort is almost 3 minutes long. So VO2max (aerobic capacity) is important as well as the ability to perform above it (explosivity and ability to maintain super-intense effort for a few dozens of seconds, which is connected to anaerobic capacity). Both systems are strongly engaged which is a brutal combination.

 

[Rob5091]

Thinking about how Pogacar did at the Tour stage up the Super Planche, his performance at F.W. should not come as a surprise. Team tactics though were brave in trying to controll the race from the start.