Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[rghysens]

I wonder what he has to do for his apologists to consider him more ridiculous than Vingegaard.

Not having any noticeable performance before his 23th birthday.

 

[Red Rick]

Not having any noticeable performance before his 23th birthday.

Stupid Jonas shoulda gotten on the nuclear fuel in his teens

 

[Forever The Best]

His current CQ value is 5332 points after today lmao. (if my calculations are right)
Has accumulated 4922 points so far this season.

 

[AttaqueDeRolland]

Not having any noticeable performance before his 23th birthday.

It's just not true that Vingegaard didn't have any noticeable performances before turning 23. He *** won a World Tour stage in Tour de Pologne. He also finished second in Post Danmark Rundt and ninth in Deutschland Tour - second in the youth classification only behind Hirschi - despite neither of these races being suitable for him at all as both have very little true climbing and are much more suited for puncheurs like, well, Hirschi.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Stupid Jonas shoulda gotten on the nuclear fuel in his teens

It's not completely impossible that the fish he used to handle had been polluted by a local chemical company.

 

[AttaqueDeRolland]

Man, people just need to stop acting like what Vingegaard and Pogacar are doing is similar. One is a highly specialized rider who performs extremely well in one very particular set of circumstances, the other is essentially a hybrid between Armstrong, Cancellara, Gilbert, and Freire. There are levels to this, you know. Credibility is a spectrum and while one might be somewhat hard to believe the other is outright impossible.

It's pretty clear if you just go by the numbers. If we look at race wins - i.e. not including GC results - in relation to race days we get a crystal clear picture of an absolute freak, someone basically at the level of Eddy Merckx, which is unequivocally not a good sign. Pogacar has 70 race wins in 323 race days in his career. That's a win rate of 21 percent. That's just ridiculous, an absolute parody, a circus act taking us all for fools. And that's for his entire career. Last season it ended at 31 percent - 15 race wins in 49 race days - and this season he is now sitting at 36 percent - 20 race wins in 55 race days.

Don't tell me that Vingegaard is at that same level of incredulity. Pogacar's career win percentage is better than Vingegaard's single-best season. Vingegaard is frankly the most believable of the big four because his seasons are tailormade for him to peak in a very specific type of race, while especially Pogacar and Evenepoel are peaking and delivering results in basically every terrain on basically any feasible parcours. That's not comparable.

 

[Salvarani]

Talent-level is just different. Simple.

 

[E_F_]

one might be somewhat hard to believe

Jonas really isn't believable at all, but agree that Pogi is on a different level. So that doesn't help his case...

 

[Heston]

Bjarne Riis was more believable.

 

[E_F_]

Talent-level is just different. Simple.

There's a non-clinic thread for you to write this stuff!

 

[GuntherL1]

Talent-level is just different. Simple.

His post-UAE talent is.
His pre-UAE talent: not so much

 

[Cassirer]

Talent-level is just different. Simple.

Yes, combine that with the porridge and it seems perfectly fine!

 

[Salvarani]

His post-UAE talent is.
His pre-UAE talent: not so much

He just won a lot of junior races the biggest U23 race. But ok.

 

[GuntherL1]

Man, people just need to stop acting like what Vingegaard and Pogacar are doing is similar. One is a highly specialized rider who performs extremely well in one very particular set of circumstances, the other is essentially a hybrid between Armstrong, Cancellara, Gilbert, and Freire. There are levels to this, you know. Credibility is a spectrum and while one might be somewhat hard to believe the other is outright impossible.

It's pretty clear if you just go by the numbers. If we look at race wins - i.e. not including GC results - in relation to race days we get a crystal clear picture of an absolute freak, someone basically at the level of Eddy Merckx, which is unequivocally not a good sign. Pogacar has 70 race wins in 323 race days in his career. That's a win rate of 21 percent. That's just ridiculous, an absolute parody, a circus act taking us all for fools. And that's for his entire career. Last season it ended at 31 percent - 15 race wins in 49 race days - and this season he is now sitting at 36 percent - 20 race wins in 55 race days.

Don't tell me that Vingegaard is at that same level of incredulity. Pogacar's career win percentage is better than Vingegaard's single-best season. Vingegaard is frankly the most believable of the big four because his seasons are tailormade for him to peak in a very specific type of race, while especially Pogacar and Evenepoel are peaking and delivering results in basically every terrain on basically any feasible parcours. That's not comparable.

Evenepoel hasn't even taken part in MSR, Strade Bianche, Amstel Gold Race, Flèche Wallonne or Flanders, so that's a bit of a strange claim.

 

[E_F_]

He won a lot of junior races

No, he most certainly did not.

 

[Salvarani]

No, he most certainly did not.

He did though. It is ok.

 

[E_F_]

He did though. It is ok.

Which ones?

 

[GuntherL1]

He just won a lot of junior races the biggest U23 race. But ok.

No, he didn't. Check his stats. Very underwhelming.
No victories in his first U23 season.
Two U23 victories after he signed for UAE. I wonder why.

 

[AttaqueDeRolland]

Evenepoel hasn't even taken part in MSR, Strade Bianche, Amstel Gold Race, Flèche Wallonne or Flanders, so that's a bit of a strange claim.

Not really. It's pretty obvious that Evenepoel is more competitive in various types of terrains and races than Vingegaard.

 

[Salvarani]

Which ones?

Won a stage in Course de la Paix Juniors.

Won a stage and the overall Giro della Lunigiana.

A bunch other great results and podiums.

Denying that he wasnt a very good junior and saying he did nothing is just false.

 

[E_F_]

Won a stage in Course de la Paix Juniors.

Won a stage and the overall Giro della Lunigiana.

Wow!!! He won a stage in Paix!!!! And Luniganigia!?!? Lugnangiana!!!!!!


3 is not "a lot" lmao

 

[AttaqueDeRolland]

Won a stage in Course de la Paix Juniors.

Won a stage and the overall Giro della Lunigiana.

A bunch other great results and podiums.

Denying that he wasnt a very good junior and saying he did nothing is just false.

Nobody is denying that he was a very good junior. However, claiming that Pogacar showcased a special level of talent in his youth is, if anything, ridiculously false. There have been many, many, many juniors with similar or noticeably better results.

 

[Froome]

This is going to end really bad, like ended for Ricardo ricco.

Gianetti and Matxin don't give again a damn anymore, they don’t even care to disguise a bit this year.

The oil money buy everything, that's the only thing who can make them safe in the future, to control the authorities.

 

[VDB44]

Won a stage in Course de la Paix Juniors.

Won a stage and the overall Giro della Lunigiana.

A bunch other great results and podiums.

Denying that he wasnt a very good junior and saying he did nothing is just false.

Compare this to Remco and you can put the "talent-card" away

 

[Salvarani]

No, he didn't. Check his stats. Very underwhelming.
No victories in his first U23 season.
Two U23 victories after he signed for UAE. I wonder why.

But he had many good results in his first U23 year...

4th in Istarsko Proljece - Istrian Spring Trophy.
5th in Carpathian Couriers Race U-23.
5th in Tour de Slovenia (pro race).
3rd in Tour de Hongrie (pro race).
2nd in Int. Raiffeisen Grand Prix Judendorf/Straßengel.
7th in Il Piccolo Lombardia.

And a bunch other top 10s in races.

That is very good! Then improved in his second year, which isnt too farfetched that he could do with showing the above in the previous one.