Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[noob]

I honestly believe that without the wives and groupies these so called "heroes" wouldn't exist lol.

Either way; hating on them women for it is a hard pass for me.

Hating on how media portrays cycling and what the riders are trained to say 🤢 is another thing.

Of course none of these guys are "good guys". Come on! They're frigging elite athletes. They're are trained to be a s * h o-o e l es (see what I did there) It's either be an a** or goodbye career.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Everything is controlled even in the media.

How armstrong was questioned by the media and this guy who is even more ridiculous (when he have gianneti behind him) doesn't get any question or investigation?

There is one simples answer:there is a lot of money involved.

Unfortunately it's like that with a lot of things these days..

 

[Epicycle2]

Gianetti probably knows where to dig up the best lugworms.

 

[Cookster15]

They're are trained to be a s * h o-o e l es (see what I did there) It's either be an a** or goodbye career.

I don't think that is always the case. Roger Federer? To be the best in any field (sport, business or whatever) there needs to be a certain degree of single mindedness. Of course this attitude can offend some people. But offence is taken not given.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I don't think that is always the case. Roger Federer? To be the best in any field (sport, business or whatever) there needs to be a certain degree of single mindedness. Of course this attitude can offend some people. But offence is taken not given.

Or Tom Brady. There’s almost no critique from teammate or rival, and the biggest “criticism” was his drive to be the best and win while holding the whole team to that standard.

 

[Casual cyclist]

I did not watch the live race for the simple reason of being 99% sure it would end up in a circus. Just took a look at the replay a few minutes ago paying attention to the way the leaders of the race rode the decisive section -- the last Kwaremont-Paterberg combo. What can I say (as if anybody expected different): same story as in 2023 that was one the clearest cases of an external assist usage. Just look at the speed of the initial separation from Matt PdV who is supposed to be an explosive big (but not too big) guy -- and a sort of nature freak to boot -- taylor-made for races just like this one. Poor Matt, with all his explosive power, could not do a thing to try not even to close this gap, but to slow down its growth. Then the body language --on both Kwaremont and Paterberg, especially the steep section. Same story as in 2023, if not even more blatant. Just look at the contrast of the smooth effortless propulsion of Pogi the weasel and the chasers thereof, shaking, doing full body motions and visibly trying to stay upright. If anybody lives nearby, he could try a simple experiment. First, climb the Paterberg on your normal bike. Then do same on a e-bike with some good (300W +) assist. Do your best in both runs and make sure to film them. Then watch them back to back. I bet you will see the same contrast that was on display in today's race, or, rather, "race".

P.S. Was funny that the commentators just kept saying just that: how easily and effortlessly he glided up those 16% cobbled inclines. So easily that the only way to see how hard this climb is was to look at the weaklings like Matt PdV and his hapless chase group buddies.

P.P.S. Also noticed that some folks on these pages seem to believe that all this circus could be just a result of something as simple as oxygen deprivation training, a self-suffocating, if not self-poisoning, of sorts, and the weasel Pogi is just so different from other self-suffocaters because of his miraculous "blood composition". Sure sounds like it.

 

[Rackham]

But here's where you lose me, even though I could quote quite a few of your later posts I totally agree with. It's not like he's on crack or something. You don't get 'addicted' to epo, carbon-monoxide, lung worms or whatever. Now you're just exaggerating.

Actually even in hindsight it was worth typing that last night because that's the crux of the matter, i.e. we're watching absolutely ruthless athletic specimens pushing the envelope of what's humanely possible with extreme scientific precision. They're risking their neck in more ways than one, literally. Cycling is a dangerous sport. The riders who do this sport take health risks on the road and in their prep. And they do it for all the usual reasons: money, glory, influence, fame, standing etc. It's been that way ever since I started watching as a kid in the 90's and remains so today. Different cast, same mentalities and behaviors.

So when the 'marketing people' come along and start portraying these athletes as "just riding his bike for fun" (aka Pogi) or as a model father who puts his family before everything (Vinge), I can only roll my eyes and call a spade a spade.

Didn't Vinge once claim he wouldn't take anything he wouldn't give his daughter? Which begs the question: did he put the carbon monoxide rebreather on her too?

That's what I'm talking about here. Aka the bigger picture when you step outside the cycling bubble and compare these riders with everyday normal law abiding (read not cheating) citizens. Oh and I've heard all the usual defense force spiel before from the likes of durianrider on youtube, i.e. "whaa you're addicted to coffee so you can't judge what Lance or Froome did and what Pogi does now". I mean come on... i.e. just enjoy the science-fiction spectacle and call them what they are right? Druggies who're risking their necks out there. And in a way we enable them because guess what? I'm subscribed to Max just for the cycling coverage.

That's just my opinion. I'm only typing this because even here in the clinic there seem to be people who actually buy the whole presentation aspect (aka their media profile) even when admitting these riders are on drugs. Nah, Pogi for example is ruthless as hell and his team UAE are total bullies in the peloton on the same level as US Postal once-upon-a-time. Ditto Visma (this accusation has been levelled against them by many smaller voices in the peloton for years).

 

[Rackham]

I honestly believe that without the wives and groupies these so called "heroes" wouldn't exist lol.

Either way; hating on them women for it is a hard pass for me.

Hating on how media portrays cycling and what the riders are trained to say 🤢 is another thing.

Of course none of these guys are "good guys". Come on! They're frigging elite athletes. They're are trained to be a s * h o-o e l es (see what I did there) It's either be an a** or goodbye career.

You know, back in 2002 when Raimondas Rumsas' wife was pulled over by the border control guys and they found a car full of EPO and other goodies, in my mind the 'myth' of the innocent spouse was busted for good. Reading Tyler Hamilton's book solidified this view, i.e. riders and their wives are on the same page regarding their career choices and benefits they reap (money and fame) goes to the entire household.

It's not 'hate' to point this out.

 

[frenchfry]

Cycling won't be watchable until this guy isn't racing anymore.

 

[frenchfry]

True, but Vingegaard is good for maybe 3/4 races each year, Pogacar literally turns up to every race he enters and destroys everyone. He literally hadn't had a bad day for 2 years now.

THIS is the problem I have. And not just every race, different categories of races the normally require different skillsets or physiology.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

THIS is the problem I have. And not just every race, different categories of races the normally require different skillsets or physiology.

Doping aside, considering Pogacar's weight (i.e. 65 kg for GTs and up to 67 kg for classics) and his huge engine physiologically he's in the sweet spot . Not too small not too big. Capable of contending very different kind of races.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Doping aside, considering Pogacar's weight (i.e. 65 kg for GTs and up to 67 kg for classics) and his huge engine physiologically he's in the sweet spot . Not too small not too big. Capable of contending very different kind of races.

According to PCS, though have no idea what their information is exactly based on, he's heavier than Hinault who is listed at 61kg, And this guy won PR and a sprint on Champs Elysee (infront of Adrie vdP). And he won PR the same season he won his 3rd Tour.

 

[Cookster15]

Cycling won't be watchable until this guy isn't racing anymore.

Speak for yourself. That’s what I thought in 2022. After the 2021 TdF, in Pog, it seemed clear we had a generational talent. But then miraculously a rival team found someone who could beat him at the sports biggest race.

But Pog’s strengths extend beyond grand tours to even one day classics. That he could even be in the mix at MSR is amazing in itself.

His aggressive style and versatility makes him more watchable IMO. Are there any stats on cycling’s popularity over the last 5 years?

 

[ashhutch1997]

Speak for yourself. That’s what I thought in 2022. After the 2021 TdF, in Pog, it seemed clear we had a generational talent. But then miraculously a rival team found someone who could beat him at the sports biggest race.

But Pog’s strengths extend beyond grand tours to even one day classics. That he could even be in the mix at MSR is amazing in itself.

His aggressive style and versatility makes him more watchable IMO. Are there any stats on cycling’s popularity over the last 5 years?

I loved his racing style, but last year it started to get very boring and predictable. I personally think it could kill the sport if it carries on as there are lots of races you know he's going to win before it's even begun.
In the UK with the price increase for discovery+ I could see the viewing figures dropping.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Cycling won't be watchable until this guy isn't racing anymore.

I agree, it used to be fun watching him but its now very boring and predictable.

 

[Blobs]

Speak for yourself.

What makes you think he's not? Who else would he be speaking for?

 

[noob]

Actually even in hindsight it was worth typing that last night because that's the crux of the matter, i.e. we're watching absolutely ruthless athletic specimens pushing the envelope of what's humanely possible with extreme scientific precision. They're risking their neck in more ways than one, literally. Cycling is a dangerous sport. The riders who do this sport take health risks on the road and in their prep. And they do it for all the usual reasons: money, glory, influence, fame, standing etc. It's been that way ever since I started watching as a kid in the 90's and remains so today. Different cast, same mentalities and behaviors.

So when the 'marketing people' come along and start portraying these athletes as "just riding his bike for fun" (aka Pogi) or as a model father who puts his family before everything (Vinge), I can only roll my eyes and call a spade a spade.

Didn't Vinge once claim he wouldn't take anything he wouldn't give his daughter? Which begs the question: did he put the carbon monoxide rebreather on her too?

That's what I'm talking about here. Aka the bigger picture when you step outside the cycling bubble and compare these riders with everyday normal law abiding (read not cheating) citizens. Oh and I've heard all the usual defense force spiel before from the likes of durianrider on youtube, i.e. "whaa you're addicted to coffee so you can't judge what Lance or Froome did and what Pogi does now". I mean come on... i.e. just enjoy the science-fiction spectacle and call them what they are right? Druggies who're risking their necks out there. And in a way we enable them because guess what? I'm subscribed to Max just for the cycling coverage.

That's just my opinion. I'm only typing this because even here in the clinic there seem to be people who actually buy the whole presentation aspect (aka their media profile) even when admitting these riders are on drugs. Nah, Pogi for example is ruthless as hell and his team UAE are total bullies in the peloton on the same level as US Postal once-upon-a-time. Ditto Visma (this accusation has been levelled against them by many smaller voices in the peloton for years).

This I agree with. Because it's discussing the whole of it.

You know, back in 2002 when Raimondas Rumsas' wife was pulled over by the border control guys and they found a car full of EPO and other goodies, in my mind the 'myth' of the innocent spouse was busted for good. Reading Tyler Hamilton's book solidified this view, i.e. riders and their wives are on the same page regarding their career choices and benefits they reap (money and fame) goes to the entire household.

It's not 'hate' to point this out.

This I don't agree with because singling one wife out, that also happens to be outside the stereotype for a cycling wife will make people assume you're critizising what makes her wife differ from the other wives. Hence all the assumptions in this thread.

I hate all the "winning for x"-talk. It makes me sick to my stomach. But cycling fans ain't that different from kpop fans wanting their favorite to be a "role model". And when said person isn't the role model they assumed he was they hate him with the same passion they used to adore him.

That's what regular people wants. Unfortunately. God was killed and we got fandom in its place

 

[masking_agent]

I wonder if he'll achieve the Giro-Tour double again ? This is worse than the Lance era without any David Walsh's around to question it. Oh well, the show continues.

 

[scribers]

What makes you think he's not? Who else would he be speaking for?

@Cookster15 speaks for me!

Just getting ahead here for all thread dynamics, knowable and unknowable

 

[scribers]

I wonder if he'll achieve the Giro-Tour double again ? This is worse than the Lance era without any David Walsh's around to question it. Oh well, the show continues.

Next year is my guess. After he runs all three spring monuments

 

[E_F_]

After he runs all three spring monuments

The three "spring monuments" being..? RvV and LBL, sure. But PR or MSR?

 

[scribers]

It has been well established my struggles with math

 

[Froome]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1909163940421972301

View: https://x.com/DLappartient/status/1909163940421972301


The cult of personality. It makes me sick. UCI will always cover everything.

 

[Casual cyclist]

I agree, it used to be fun watching him but its now very boring and predictable.

Well. The last time it was fun was probably in 2019 Vuelta. Starting from that 2020 TDF TT, it has always been rather clear that something was not quite what it appeared to be on the surface. In particular, 2023 Flanders was obviously very suspicious. Not just the win, but the effortless, smiling, smooth sailing uniform (as opposed to pulsing, resulting from pedal pushing in a maximum effort situation) propulsion way in which he left these two crossers in the dust on the Kwaremont. Of course, the whole 2024 season made all previous suspicious cases look like child's play.

 

[Casual cyclist]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1909163940421972301

View: https://x.com/DLappartient/status/1909163940421972301


The cult of personality. It makes me sick. UCI will always cover everything.

Well. Look at who posted it. Even his face expression spells "weasel" in capital letters. The guy would tell you that Earth is square without flinching if that were somehow profitable at the moment.