Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[zlev11]

The biopassport, the last bastion of the anti-doping fight forces the riders to use motors? Now that‘s weird.

what? that's not what i said at all.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

what? that's not what i said at all.

Not really, but you did state that the Bio passport is a limiting factor while a motor can put out practically unlimited watts before anyone does something about it

 

[Blobs]

Something puzzles me: Pogacar seems to think that other riders are on the same level as him (although they all say he is in another league). When attacking today, he turned around to see if anyone was following him . In AGR, he reacted to Alaphilippe's attack and said in an interview that he was someone to watch out for . These are situations in which one reacts instinctively, without calculating.
Pogacar doesn't seem to know how strong he is. He thinks he can be beaten. That's weird. And that's not an argument in favour of electric assistance.

Edit : emojis made strange things like Pogi's bike.

He wouldn't do 80-100K solos if he didn't believe he is by far the strongest. Especially in races he would almost certainly win from a group. He knows he's better.

 

[Casual cyclist]

Something puzzles me: Pogacar seems to think that other riders are on the same level as him (although they all say he is in another league). When attacking today, he turned around to see if anyone was following him . In AGR, he reacted to Alaphilippe's attack and said in an interview that he was someone to watch out for . These are situations in which one reacts instinctively, without calculating.
Pogacar doesn't seem to know how strong he is. He thinks he can be beaten. That's weird. And that's not an argument in favour of electric assistance.

Edit : emojis made strange things like Pogi's bike.

One: he might not be very bright. And two (and related to one): Mauro may have convinced him (helped by his willingness to believe) that all "modern bikes" have a little "turbo" button. They have multiple batteries in the frame after all, for all those shifters and transponders. So one of those batteries can just reduce the "friction" through "science" in an opportune moment. Everybody is doing it and you (Pog) should too.

 

[zlev11]

Not really, but you did state that the Bio passport is a limiting factor while a motor can put out practically unlimited watts before anyone does something about it

nope, didn't say that either. wanna try again?

 

[QueenStagiaire]

nope, didn't say that either. wanna try again?

Well, definitely the bio passport part is true. What would you say is the approximate output of Pogačar‘s motor? It is not the Infinity I stated and I apologise for possibly misrepresenting your argument but since (at least from what I understood so far) you seem to think it is significant to his acceleration today it has to be in the order of 1 or multiple W/kg, right?

 

[Casual cyclist]

Well, definitely the bio passport part is true. What would you say is the approximate output of Pogačar‘s motor? It is not the Infinity I stated and I apologise for possibly misrepresenting your argument but since (at least from what I understood so far) you seem to think it is significant to his acceleration today it has to be in the order of 1 or multiple W/kg, right?

Speaking strictly of the comical episode on the Muur, since it lasted less than a minute and the weather was cool and damp to boot, it could have been an extra 300W or more easily. And judging from his look at the finish (the one with the dirty face) it was about that since he was still nose breathing and fresh looking.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

When Healey start to overtake, his right thumb press secret button...check the foto.
https://file.si/LJPa/pogi-turns-on-turbo.jpg

This is what being on these forums is all about man.

I'm not even sure I think he's using motors but I love these videos with stills of the guys thumb position on top of the hoods. Someone needs to pull up that cancellera roubiax one where he drops leukamans like a hot potato on the flat.

I hope they catch him using a motor so they can award the 2021 lombardia to Fausto masnada. I doubt that Fausto is using a motor, if so he forgot to charge the batteries for 4 years. His (sh*t) performances will stand the test of time

 

[zlev11]

Well, definitely the bio passport part is true. What would you say is the approximate output of Pogačar‘s motor? It is not the Infinity I stated and I apologise for possibly misrepresenting your argument but since (at least from what I understood so far) you seem to think it is significant to his acceleration today it has to be in the order of 1 or multiple W/kg, right?

my post isn't hard to understand. i dont know what you dont get about it? nowhere did I say the motor has "Infinity Watts" or whatever the hell you're trying to say. the point is you can't go 4 minutes faster than Pantani while being within the limitations of the biopassport. there has to be something else giving him the watts and a lot of them. i have no idea how many watts a motor can deliver and i don't think that part is even important since i would assume they try to keep it within the realm of believability, although today they may have overdone it a bit.

 

[bearSIZE]

Hi everyone! Long time lurker on these pages, I always love coming on here after a thermonuclear performance to read the comments. Honestly I quite enjoy watching Pog, but I’ve been a cycling fan for long enough to know for sure that he isn’t doing it just on natural talent.

My theory (if anyone cares) is that his performance is enhanced mainly with the use of blood bags rather than any particular new and exotic ped. Fuentes had a freezer system for storing multiple blood bags, and that was nearly 20 years ago. With the resources at the hands of UAE, and more importantly with the experience in the dirty side of things his team management have, it’s perfectly feasible that they have developed a system whereby Pog (and team mates in the bigger races) can have a fresh bb whenever they need it. Pog’s penchant for long range attacks would certainly be a ‘symptom’ of this kind of doping in my opinion.

During the grand tours it’s perfectly feasible that they could have 4 or 5 (or more) bb’s ready for Pog, which would explain why his performance never drops off and how he is able to consistently perform like an alien whenever he desires.

I look forward to some other opinions on this!

 

[QueenStagiaire]

I love how I make a sarcastic remark about him looking fresh to a picture of him looking like his death certificate is currently being filled out and now it‘s apparently a fact that he looked fresh.

 

[Divergence]

What do you all mean he was not even trying during his attack? His whole body was contorting and he had more to give than the others. This motodoping theory is frankly ridiculous.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Hi everyone! Long time lurker on these pages, I always love coming on here after a thermonuclear performance to read the comments. Honestly I quite enjoy watching Pog, but I’ve been a cycling fan for long enough to know for sure that he isn’t doing it just on natural talent.

My theory (if anyone cares) is that his performance is enhanced mainly with the use of blood bags rather than any particular new and exotic ped. Fuentes had a freezer system for storing multiple blood bags, and that was nearly 20 years ago. With the resources at the hands of UAE, and more importantly with the experience in the dirty side of things his team management have, it’s perfectly feasible that they have developed a system whereby Pog (and team mates in the bigger races) can have a fresh bb whenever they need it. Pog’s penchant for long range attacks would certainly be a ‘symptom’ of this kind of doping in my opinion.

During the grand tours it’s perfectly feasible that they could have 4 or 5 (or more) bb’s ready for Pog, which would explain why his performance never drops off and how he is able to consistently perform like an alien whenever he desires.

I look forward to some other opinions on this!

Yeah there are quite a few good examples of this in my view, LPDBF tt in 2020, Brandon Mcnulty and Mikkel Bjerg being mediocre for 2 weeks, then out of nowhere dropping the best riders of the generation on stage 17 2022 then once again being nowhere the day after, and Stage 6 of the 2023 Tour really spring out to me.

My personal conspiracy is that they did one of their bags earlier than expected in 2023 and mistimed their refuelling leading to the week 3 disaster.

A niche streets-favourite was Bahrain on Angliru in 2023 rising from the dead, Erzen is known to have been in the market for a Blood Centrifuge during the Aderlass years; https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bahrain-manager-milan-erzen-denies-links-to-aderlass-doctor/

Fuentes believes blood doping is how they are getting round the passport FWIW, he thinks they are doing much smaller blood bags more often to keep the scores more consistent, there was a leaked conversation posted on here a while ago I'm sure someone can link.

 

[the delgados]

What do you all mean he was not even trying during his attack? His whole body was contorting and he had more to give than the others. This motodoping theory is frankly ridiculous.

I haven't read all the comments, so I apologize if I'm being repetitious.
It's bloody obvious the guy is on the gear. I have no idea if he's riding a moto, but the thing that stuck out to me was the fact he didn't even flinch when riders like Healy tried to launch an attack in the last few hundred metres. His focus was on his handlebars, not opponents.
His last minute attack had nothing to do with other riders; he waited until his pre-planned strategy to turn on the after-burners came into effect. He did not look like he was suffering.

 

[Casual cyclist]

What do you all mean he was not even trying during his attack? His whole body was contorting and he had more to give than the others. This motodoping theory is frankly ridiculous.

Even more frankly, the only thing I see contorting here is your vision. Just rewatch that comedy episode one more time. He is swaying a bit side to side indicating that some pressure is put on the pedals. The only time he looks strained is in the hairpin immediately following that circus acceleration where the local gradient is likely over 20% so the motor could momentarily bog down (i.e. the power required to maintain the pace there increased and the motor output was already maxed out). Then he merrily continued his seated journey increasing the gap while the chasers were all standing and using their weight to overcome the gradient. The simple balance of forces just does not compute. The only way you could match a standing effort of a similar size cyclist in like situation is by pulling on handlebar like a madman while using your track-rider size thighs to mash the pedals to oblivion. Pogoclown, on the other hand, is much more of a stick rather than someone resembling a track sprinter. So, even if he had all oxygen in the atmosphere at his disposal, he would still need to stand up and do what essentially amounts to a full sprint, just like his chasers who were constantly losing ground to boot. On top of all that, during his initial acceleration that created what looked like at least a 30m gap in a few seconds, that pedal pressure, according to Newton's second law, had to exceed that of the chasers by quite a significant amount. He still did not care to stand.

 

[Ripper]

Yeah there are quite a few good examples of this in my view, LPDBF tt in 2020, Brandon Mcnulty and Mikkel Bjerg being mediocre for 2 weeks, then out of nowhere dropping the best riders of the generation on stage 17 2022 then once again being nowhere the day after, and Stage 6 of the 2023 Tour really spring out to me.

My personal conspiracy is that they did one of their bags earlier than expected in 2023 and mistimed their refuelling leading to the week 3 disaster.

A niche streets-favourite was Bahrain on Angliru in 2023 rising from the dead, Erzen is known to have been in the market for a Blood Centrifuge during the Aderlass years; https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bahrain-manager-milan-erzen-denies-links-to-aderlass-doctor/

Fuentes believes blood doping is how they are getting round the passport FWIW, he thinks they are doing much smaller blood bags more often to keep the scores more consistent, there was a leaked conversation posted on here a while ago I'm sure someone can link.

Indeed one of the best ways to game the bio passport is simply to continually dope, but take proper care so you take yourself to a higher level, and then maintain normal fluctuation. Docs can sure be helpful here, as well as technology!

But surely no one in the modern peloton would be so dastardly!?!?

 

[Casual cyclist]

One more fun bit. Just watched the last km replay on FloBikes and the English language commentator said literally the following: "The world champion...has just ridden away as though everyone else had their brakes on." Yeah, not s.t, Relatively speaking, this is exactly what happened. Having your brakes on is equivalent to some negative external to your body force applied. So the relative effect of the comparison Pogoclown vs, chasers is the same as X-0=0-(-X) for any X, or, in simple words, not being subject to a negative force is just as good as being subject to a positive one. And this is just what everyone including the media folks saw.

 

[Unchained]

Must have seen a replay by that time and it looked so ridiculous that he got a bit scared. Probably was cursing that old fool Mario who dialed the e-assist before (or during) the race.

Must be a different thing.. I saw some twenty something former Eastern kid, dejected after race in the rain. He doesn't have an E-bike diagnosis from general public, UCI or any race he has done since 2018..so if he is hiding electric motors.. It's been for a while.. Different countries..

 

[AmRacer]

One more fun bit. Just watched the last km replay on FloBikes and the English language commentator said literally the following: "The world champion...has just ridden away as though everyone else had their brakes on." Yeah, not s.t, Relatively speaking, this is exactly what happened. Having your brakes on is equivalent to some negative external to your body force applied. So the relative effect of the comparison Pogoclown vs, chasers is the same as X-0=0-(-X) for any X, or, in simple words, not being subject to a negative force is just as good as being subject to a positive one. And this is just what everyone including the media folks saw.

So, how did Mathieu manage to beat Pogi?

 

[gregrowlerson]

This is what being on these forums is all about man.

I'm not even sure I think he's using motors but I love these videos with stills of the guys thumb position on top of the hoods. Someone needs to pull up that cancellera roubiax one where he drops leukamans like a hot potato on the flat.

I hope they catch him using a motor so they can award the 2021 lombardia to Fausto masnada. I doubt that Fausto is using a motor, if so he forgot to charge the batteries for 4 years. His (sh*t) performances will stand the test of time

I have considered making a prediction of you to play super domestique to Masnada in a famous victory, but unfortunately I don't think it's realistic enough.

 

[Blobs]

So, how did Mathieu manage to beat Pogi?

Pogi crashed

 

[AmRacer]

Pogi crashed

MSR too? And Pogi has never won a sprint against Mathieu., no way Pogi would have dropped him at PR.

 

[Stablo]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1915184790703317472

View: https://x.com/triviumcolombia/status/1915184790703317472?s=19


It certainly looks suspicious and needs to get more attention, ad the pressing for that otherwordly seated attack where others just vanish for the distance. I also saw calculations on X that during the attack he was putting 15-20% more power/speed compared to the competition. I think the difference is too big to be achieved by better PEDs only. This UAE Gianetti&Dopacar combination is making me sick. Was waiting for even LBL, but now i feel like watching a short replay, cause this clown is attending there too.
P.S. presses the exact sama position on handlebars for both sides.

 

[Notarobot]

Just watch the last 1.2km of this race and tell me it looks normal how Poga accelerates. You can't. It's an E-bike he's riding. Just f-ing look at the cadence and the sudden change in speed.

 

[Rackham]

Rightly or wrongly there's a small part of many of us that might just entertain a certain sense of ' twisted romanticism' about traditional PED use in cycling. It's almost poetic, really, dating back half a century at least. We all have memories of our childhood heroes wrecking the field whilst juiced up to their eyeballs. If it wasn't true, we'd all be Christophe Bassons fanboys and never even watch the races anymore. So yes, we all act disgusted and yeah a part of me is grossed out by how out of control all of it is but really, i.e. let's get real here we know how the system works. Sink or swim, aka get with the program and may the best and most insane super-responder rider who doesn't care about his long-term health prospects win.

But I draw the line at preferential treatment (any implication whereby certain teams and riders have carte blanche whilst others don't) and motordoping/e-bike stuff. If there's ever an e-bike scandal in the sport it'll kill pro-cycling completely.

It would be a disaster for the sport.