Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[SorelyBoy]

Evidence for the prosecution.
1. No off days.
2. Never effected by illness. Always in peak form.
3. No negative reaction to supposedly huge efforts. No sign of attritional impact on body from lots of racing.
4. Unaffected by any weather variables. Hot or cold it doesn't matter.
5. Every so often, very rarely and for no explainable reason, he looks normal. Not weak exactly, just like a top rider among other top riders. Witness the TT 2 days ago.
6. He always follows up such days by crucifying the opposition with an especially amazing effort.
7. Seated attacks which feature very fast and immediate accelerations with no apparent increase in cadence or effort. This includes on ridiculously steep climbs when all other riders are fighting their bikes.
8. No body roll or strain apparent on the core during such attacks.
9. No red zone. Ability to attack and then maintain enhanced pace until the end of the race or stage.
10. Very little sign of physical effort at end. Never even tired looking. Not out of breath. No sweat.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

I've just heard he's a fan of Andrew Talansky so that's probably why he wants to dominate Dauphiné.

 

[hrotha]

The thing with that is there's no motors without having UCI okaying it anyway.

Right, which only adds to the unlikelihood of motors giving you a competitive edge and hence of motors explaining Pogačar

 

[Red Rick]

Right, which only adds to the unlikelihood of motors giving you a competitive edge and hence of motors explaining Pogačar

Well, the UCI letting certain riders get away with stuff is a well established thing of the past.

But really it's quite simply that the current phenomena look so absurd that even absurd explanations don't look so batshit anymore.

And I would also think the UCI is very much not incentivized to catch it after the fact simply because if you catch it it kills the entire sport.

 

[meat puppet]

Evidence for the prosecution.
1. No off days.
2. Never effected by illness. Always in peak form.
3. No negative reaction to supposedly huge efforts. No sign of attritional impact on body from lots of racing.
4. Unaffected by any weather variables. Hot or cold it doesn't matter.
5. Every so often, very rarely and for no explainable reason, he looks normal. Not weak exactly, just like a top rider among other top riders. Witness the TT 2 days ago.
6. He always follows up such days by crucifying the opposition with an especially amazing effort.
7. Seated attacks which feature very fast and immediate accelerations with no apparent increase in cadence or effort. This includes on ridiculously steep climbs when all other riders are fighting their bikes.
8. No body roll or strain apparent on the core during such attacks.
9. No red zone. Ability to attack and then maintain enhanced pace until the end of the race or stage.
10. Very little sign of physical effort at end. Never even tired looking. Not out of breath. No sweat.

Superior mitochondria and zone 2 explains it all. He is just that good. The original explanation vindicated.

 

[Froome]

Superior mitochondria and zone 2 explains it all. He is just that good. The original explanation vindicated.

The last time i heard a fanbase saying thinks like that in a different way, the guy ended in Oprah.

 

[ashhutch1997]

The last time i heard a fanbase saying thinks like that in a different way, the guy ended in Oprah.

But the difference is LA got pelted by the press and fans. Where's Lord Pogi can do no wrong.

 

[Stablo]

pogi uses a motor, and the earth is flat.

No in this case you poggie fanboys are the flatearthers. My kids also believe in Santa, so it's okey to believe motočar doesn't have an unfair advantage over the competition, since almost two years now.

The thing that is very annoying, that monsta makes the races almost unwatchable and then the fanboys make these days the racing threads almost unreadable. So pretty please, if you're contribution is insults on the real world part in the forum, could you kindly stay in the fairytale section 🙏🏼here is a link:

Page 1268 - Teams & Riders - Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

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[snipeheem]

No in this case you poggie fanboys are the flatearthers. My kids also believe in Santa, so it's okey to believe motočar doesn't have an unfair advantage over the competition, since almost two years now.

The thing that is very annoying, that monsta makes the races almost unwatchable and the the fanboys make these days the racing threads almost unreadable. So pretty please, if you're contribution is insults on the real world part in the forum, could you kindly stay in the fairytale section 🙏🏼here is a link:

Page 1268 - Teams & Riders - Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

Page 1268 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.

forum.cyclingnews.com

U believe he is using motor i cant take u serious. Have a nice day

 

[Ripper]

The last time i heard a fanbase saying thinks like that in a different way, the guy ended in Oprah.

I know MP was joking, but a consistent factor in past doping generations is there are always scientists (!), journos, pundits, and fans, who try to explain why this is legit happening.

Pharmstrong was super efficient. Big Mig just had a huge heart. Conta had amazing lactate clearance. Froome just lost weight. (after the fact, Froomester looks possibly the least egregious!!)

And some of these are true. That does not explain away that doping was a big issue and mostly came to light after the fact. Except in some cases, when it never was formally proven ... I mean, I don't think I've seen anyone willing to put there hand in the fire defending Big Mig, but he was never actually popped.

 

[Stablo]

U believe he is using motor i cant take u serious. Have a nice day

And you believe his not having an cheating advantage, motor or bioligical. Yeah seems you really know the sports and world. Enjoy your weekend 🤡🫡Ignorance is a bliss.

 

[snipeheem]

And you believe his not having an cheating advantage, motor or bioligical. Yeah seems you really know the sports and world. Enjoy your weekend 🤡🫡Ignorance is a bliss.

Ofc he is doped just like Jonas and the rest. But motor? Come on

 

[SorelyBoy]

The last time i heard a fanbase saying thinks like that in a different way, the guy ended in Oprah.

It's like 2002 all over again. I'm not going to be fooled twice. You get old and you learn.

But the difference is LA got pelted by the press and fans. Where's Lord Pogi can do no wrong.

Well, the French press were certainly sceptical. Pogacar doesn't seem to attract the same level of scrutiny apart from a few outliers. And such is the media's built-in interest to keep the charade going, even more so than back then, I don't expect a David Walsh type to at least question what is going on. Especially given the financial firepower of UAE. We rely on someone getting irritated for some reason and going public. Which is ultimately what happened to Lance.

 

[ashhutch1997]

No in this case you poggie fanboys are the flatearthers. My kids also believe in Santa, so it's okey to believe motočar doesn't have an unfair advantage over the competition, since almost two years now.

The thing that is very annoying, that monsta makes the races almost unwatchable and the the fanboys make these days the racing threads almost unreadable. So pretty please, if you're contribution is insults on the real world part in the forum, could you kindly stay in the fairytale section 🙏🏼here is a link:

Page 1268 - Teams & Riders - Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

Page 1268 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.

forum.cyclingnews.com

I agree with you with a lot of things related to doping, but I just can't accept there's motordoping going on. I just don't want to believe it, it would be the end of cycling.
Then again cyclings pretty dead right now when Pogacar dominates everything all year.

 

[Stablo]

Ofc he is doped just like Jonas and the rest. But motor? Come on

You can't rule it out, come on. Such naivety is stunnig, but when you look what's happening around the world these days, it's also not suprising. With Gianetti&UAE his the biggest cheat of all time and UCI just let's it happen, cause money talks and *** walks.

 

[Blobs]

I agree with you with a lot of things related to doping, but I just can't accept there's motordoping going on. I just don't want to believe it, it would be the end of cycling.
Then again cyclings pretty dead right now when Pogacar dominates everything all year.

I don't want to believe it either, but I just don't know how to explain his Froome-like transformation. Suddenly gaining 10% extra power, in your mid-twenties, is already suspect, but doing it when you're already the best in the world should be impossible.

Add to that that they erased every weakness he used to have, at the same time.

 

[SorelyBoy]

I agree with you with a lot of things related to doping, but I just can't accept there's motordoping going on. I just don't want to believe it, it would be the end of cycling.
Then again cyclings pretty dead right now when Pogacar dominates everything all year.

I didn't want to think that either. Any more than I wanted to believe teams were back on the gear again big time post COVID, some more than others of course. But then I looked at the evidence. I consider the facts. The facts say motor doping is a thing and has been for at least 15 years or longer. And its has become very sophisticated. I then look at what is going on with this guy and for me, PEDs doesn't explain it. Not by itself. The contrast with other riders is too stark. Too much of an outlier. Something else is happening here. And I'm not one to believe in conspiracies or crazy ***. But when I see the accelerations, the sustained levels of performance, the body language, the absence of fatigue, I have to think there is something else going on here that can't merely be delivered by a human body, no matter how much enhancers its been given.

 

[Stablo]

I agree with you with a lot of things related to doping, but I just can't accept there's motordoping going on. I just don't want to believe it, it would be the end of cycling.
Then again cyclings pretty dead right now when Pogacar dominates everything all year.

It surely look like a sophisticated motor, it's also plausible they came up with some sort new super juice in the winter of 23/24, but if so how does it make the fatique go away? All the previous super-dopers were still looking like on the limit. And how does it make you super dominant all year around. That's why the e-pill seems the most logical explanation at the moment. It would be a big blow to the sport, but UAE&Gianetti don't care and know that the UCI won't let it come to light.

 

[Notarobot]

I really dislike pogacar. The way he acts after every race he demolishes the "competition" looking all fresh making comments like "oh I just wanted to see Urska finish"... He is just taking the piss with all of us. It's so blatantly in your face and not a single journalist is asking the real guestions. All you hear is everybody praising him, saying stuff like that it's so amazing we get to witness this once in a lifetime greatness. It's the exact same thing as back then with Armstrong, but 10 times worse. Sickening.

 

[Ripper]

I didn't want to think that either. Any more than I wanted to believe teams were back on the gear again big time post COVID, some more than others of course. But then I looked at the evidence. I consider the facts. The facts say motor doping is a thing and has been for at least 15 years or longer. And its has become very sophisticated. I then look at what is going on with this guy and for me, PEDs doesn't explain it. Not by itself. The contrast with other riders is too stark. Too much of an outlier. Something else is happening here. And I'm not one to believe in conspiracies or crazy ***. But when I see the accelerations, the sustained levels of performance, the body language, the absence of fatigue, I have to think there is something else going on here that can't merely be delivered by a human body, no matter how much enhancers its been given.

Remember that Covid season, where there was a pause and when racing kicked up again it was just like "holy crap is this intense racing"? It was extremely noticeable, but the world was so crazy and many (me for sure) were so happy racing was back

 

[Pozzovivo]

Just a silly (maybe?) speculation: What if Roglič told Pogačar what Visma were doing after his acrimonious breakup with the team in 2023? Pog made the leap in the 2024 off-season. I know it doesn’t serve his interests, but maybe it happened in a weak moment after being absolutely screwed by the team in 2023?

 

[Stablo]

I don't want to believe it either, but I just don't know how to explain his Froome-like transformation. Suddenly gaining 10% extra power, in your mid-twenties, is already suspect, but doing it when you're already the best in the world should be impossible.

Add to that that they erased every weakness he used to have, at the same time.

This exactly and so many people are buying it on face value. It makes my brain kind of hurt tbh😂🤡well after tmr there's some break from the monsta at least. My intrest on the Tour is currently really low, which is sad, cause it has been the sporting highlight of so many summers. (The football world cups and Euros too)

 

[bNator]

I really dislike pogacar. The way he acts after every race he demolishes the "competition" looking all fresh making comments like "oh I just wanted to see Urska finish"... He is just taking the piss with all of us. It's so blatantly in your face and not a single journalist is asking the real guestions. All you hear is everybody praising him, saying stuff like that it's so amazing we get to witness this once in a lifetime greatness. It's the exact same thing as back then with Armstrong, but 10 times worse. Sickening.

A philosophical question. Let’s assume for a second - not necessarily with Pogacar but in general - you did have a chance to witness once in a lifetime greatness. How would you recognise it since greatness = cheating by default? What would have to happen which would make you agree something is once in a lifetime greatness?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Just a silly (maybe?) speculation: What if Roglič told Pogačar what Visma were doing after his acrimonious breakup with the team in 2023? Pog made the leap in the 2024 off-season. I know it doesn’t serve his interests, but maybe it happened in a weak moment after being absolutely screwed by the team in 2023?

Well it isn't the craziest conspiracy theory we've heard on here.

 

[Ripper]

A philosophical question. Let’s assume for a second - not necessarily with Pogacar but in general - you did have a chance to witness once in a lifetime greatness. How would you recognise it since greatness = cheating by default? What would have to happen which would make you agree something is once in a lifetime greatness?

Why does "greatness = cheating by default"? Is the question at what point can you discern between "generational talent" that is not cheating, to when there is such talent but there is also cheating?