Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

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Oct 13, 2024
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I don't understand why every race has to be won. But I guess if you're used to it and has become "win tolerant" you have to win in bigger and better style with more minutes and crush the competition more and more each time.

Maybe he's become addicted not to winning but to humiliate. How small must the self confidence of such a person be.
Okay this is really just my opinion and nothing more, but ever considered that Tadej is simply not that of a nice person? I think he's rather arrogant and continues to show this. Countless examples.

You are absoluright I think, he probably feels the need to continuesly beat everyone with more difference or in bigger ways. And hey he can, because the difference apparantly is so big. I don't think most of us actually realise how big the difference is if he really goes 'full gas'. Tadej always talks about 'full gas'but I actually think he barely ever does so...
 
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I think it's some weird thing were people identify themselves with the true outliers, see the same thing in hockey forums, game forums and so on. People have this mega boner for the very best and feel like they are entitled the world simply for having success in something, all things considered, rather meaningless.

The weird thing is that when I grew up people would usually identify more with the underdogs but there, to me, seems to be a clear shift. Of course all empirical and just some observations ive made but it seems to indicate that people in general envision themselves as these demigods.

Rather off topic but think this is a trend we can see in pretty much anything, winner truly does take it all nowadays and the vast majority are simply there to prop them up. Not that it's anything new in history(after all we have had self proclaimed gods as emperors and what not) but what's new, to me, is that the mass at large totally buys into it. Wonder if the cyclists are the same, do they worship the ground Pog rides on?
You are really getting to the core I believe, what you talk about has to do with the 'GOAT' admiration of people.

It's prevalent in every sport. It was not the case 20 years ago. I do not get why people adore Tadej at any cost. I can only explain that because I don't care about this GOAT thing, I just want a nice match, a good competition, entertainment.
 
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Jul 15, 2024
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Someone else mentioned this here too, but seems like teddy uses the more aero frame on flat to hilly stages and then the newer bike on decisive hard stages. The new one has that straight seat tube with more space for a battery maybe, just speculating the same as some earlier did. And if I remember correctly rest of the team uses the bike with the "more" aero frame.

View: https://www.instagram.com/p/DK4x81VI3VI/?igsh=MTd2bWd5bTIxN3RqMQ==
 
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Someone else mentioned this here too, but seems like teddy uses the more aero frame on flat to hilly stages and then the newer bike on decisive hard stages. The new one has that straight seat tube with more space for a battery maybe, just speculating the same as some earlier did. And if I remember correctly rest of the team uses the bike with the "more" aero frame.

View: https://www.instagram.com/p/DK4x81VI3VI/?igsh=MTd2bWd5bTIxN3RqMQ==
Not to mention the TT bike which gets a thorough examination before the stage starts by a UCI official.
 
Sure, the UCI has every incentive to protect Pogačar. But it's not like anyone else has been caught with a motor, is it. So either the UCI also has an incentive to protect everyone else including Pogačar's rivals (meaning: no competitive edge), or the UCI isn't looking at all (so Pogačar's rivals are equally free to use motors, meaning: no competitive edge), or only Pogačar is using a motor because his rivals freely choose not to (which sounds pretty unlikely if they know what's going on, and in this scenario they do because motors have been used before), or Pogačar is the only one using a motor because the UCI can easily find motors and they've warned everyone else not to use them even though they all can see Pogačar is using one (which sounds like a massive leak waiting to happen), or motors are not part of the equation.

the problem with this is assuming that all motors give the same advantage forever. i think there can be an arms race with motors the same way that there is with doping. for instance, let's say Pogacar had a motor in 2021 where nobody could touch him. Jumbo said "F this" and showed up the next two years with a more powerful one and slaughtered him. so then UAE went to work developing an even stronger one for 2024 and suddenly Pogacar is going 4 minutes faster than undetectable EPO times. now both of them are putting 5 minutes into the field at a TDF prep race.
 
the problem with this is assuming that all motors give the same advantage forever. i think there can be an arms race with motors the same way that there is with doping. for instance, let's say Pogacar had a motor in 2021 where nobody could touch him. Jumbo said "F this" and showed up the next two years with a more powerful one and slaughtered him. so then UAE went to work developing an even stronger one for 2024 and suddenly Pogacar is going 4 minutes faster than undetectable EPO times. now both of them are putting 5 minutes into the field at a TDF prep race.
What's worse with that inexplicable assumption is that battery and electric motor technologies are booming right now. The improvements are astronomical - and I'm sure the costs are as well, for the newest best stuff.
 
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the problem with this is assuming that all motors give the same advantage forever. i think there can be an arms race with motors the same way that there is with doping. for instance, let's say Pogacar had a motor in 2021 where nobody could touch him. Jumbo said "F this" and showed up the next two years with a more powerful one and slaughtered him. so then UAE went to work developing an even stronger one for 2024 and suddenly Pogacar is going 4 minutes faster than undetectable EPO times. now both of them are putting 5 minutes into the field at a TDF prep race.
I already addressed this. The main limiting factor in motors in the pro scene is the need to keep them concealed. If the UCI isn't even looking, that hurdle disappears, which means the only restraining force is your own sense of shame and self-worth as a professional sportsman (lol). Making the motor more powerful is a trivial problem if concealment is not a concern
 
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The UCI could easily put an end to the talk of motordoping. All it would take is one random test broadcasted live after one of those suspicious stages.
Just remove the fork, stick a camera inside the frame and everyone can see if there are any extra wires or batteries. I mean how hard can it be? Those tablets are only likely to increase suspicion.

because they're afraid of what they might find
 
I already addressed this. The main limiting factor in motors in the pro scene is the need to keep them concealed. If the UCI isn't even looking, that hurdle disappears, which means the only restraining force is your own sense of shame and self-worth as a professional sportsman (lol). Making the motor more powerful is a trivial problem if concealment is not a concern

well, part of having a "better" motor also pertains to the concealment of it. yeah, if the UCI doesn't care then people are going to show up with nitrous on their bikes. but the UCI definitely does care, or at least pretends to care and that's where your argument doesn't really make sense to me. IMO, possibily what's happening is that the power a motor gives you compared to how small and/or hard to detect it is has gone way up in the past few years and there are big discrepancies between who has what. then it figures that Pogacar just happens to be on the team with the most money and is the one who is seemingly racing at his own speed. the point about shame being a limiting factor goes out the window when the guy doing it is now considered The Greatest Cyclist To Ever Live and the cycling media in general just seems to think the guy has no limitations on how fast he can go. then we get into the "too big to fail" aspect and yeah, that's where we are.
 
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What's crazy is that motor doping was never on my radar with Pogacar until the most recent spate of seated attacks ... it looked like regular doping to me. Now I'm almost convinced that it has to be part of the explanation. These seated attacks where his leg muscles aren't really even flexing and he's just powering away, then hammering at his head unit trying to find the secret hidden menu to turn it on or off ... very suspicious.
 
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well, part of having a "better" motor also pertains to the concealment of it. yeah, if the UCI doesn't care then people are going to show up with nitrous on their bikes. but the UCI definitely does care, or at least pretends to care and that's where your argument doesn't really make sense to me. IMO, possibily what's happening is that the power a motor gives you compared to how small and/or hard to detect it is has gone way up in the past few years and there are big discrepancies between who has what. then it figures that Pogacar just happens to be on the team with the most money and is the one who is seemingly racing at his own speed. the point about shame being a limiting factor goes out the window when the guy doing it is now considered The Greatest Cyclist To Ever Live and the cycling media in general just seems to think the guy has no limitations on how fast he can go. then we get into the "too big to fail" aspect and yeah, that's where we are.
For the record, that "lol" was meant to imply that a pro's sense of shame is not a powerful restraining force, the implication being "if the UCI isn't checking, then there are practically speaking no limiting factors at all (and hence it's hard to see how UAE could get that much of a technical edge on their rivals)"
 
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For the record, that "lol" was meant to imply that a pro's sense of shame is not a powerful restraining force, the implication being "if the UCI isn't checking, then there are practically speaking no limiting factors at all (and hence it's hard to see how UAE could get that much of a technical edge on their rivals)"
I'm not really into the motor theory. However, not unlike motorsports, perhaps the technological aspects of a motor is part of the scientific battle that takes place (better bikes, better equipment, etc).

I am sure there are lots of trade secrets in some of the teams (not motor related).
 
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Good evening, you lovely people,

first timer here; I‘ve been a cycling fan since 1998, Ullrich and Pantani, that's how it all started, and now – at least since this year – I'm seriously ‘pissed and mad about it’.

A brief background: I trained at a high level for five years, 18-24 hours per week, Vo2Max was at 82-85, and from 2019 to 2023, I did about 2,600 hours of indoor training on the Smarttrainer.

Why am I telling you this?

I noticed something odd on stage 6 of Dauphine; keyword: Pogačar's attack.

Feel free to watch the video (preferably on a slightly larger screen).


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C7M7PkRQL4&t=111s



Until about minute 1:44, Vingegaard is right behind Pogačar.

Then, at 1:46, Pogačar looks down at his bike computer (or whatever it is) and then pulls away decisively from poor Vingegaard – Pogačars performance simply explodes (seated).

It looks as if the motor is kicking in.

In fact, it's the same sequence of events that Pogačar performed immediately before his winning attack at Flèche Wallone 2025 (looking down, sudden explosion of power, seated).

But we already know all this. What I find really strange in the rest of the video:

At around 1:49 (and perhaps also at 1:52), his cadence seems to vary – it's hard to see, and only for about two or three pedal revolutions. In my opinion, for a very brief, almost imperceptible moment, his cadence becomes slightly faster and then drops slightly again, all without shifting gears (as he did before the attack, for example). It happens within second(s).

This observation – Pogačar does not shift gears, the power output remains consistently high (he pulls away significantly), but the cadence still varies – immediately reminded me of indoor training and the behaviour of my Tacx Neo (used in ERG-mode).

When riding intervals with the Tacx Neo 2 at high power – say anything above 350 watts; it becomes really clear with the Tacx Neo 2 when switching from 470 watts to 370 watts, for example – the chip sometimes doesn't work fast enough and a similar phenomenon occurs; with the Tacx Neo, because the full resistance is not immediately available at the start of the interval (= very high cadence for a short time), but is then present after one or two seconds (= so the cadence lowers).

With regard to the attack: Pogačar's hypothetical motor must – after being activated by him – have had an (unforeseen) power spike upwards (= sudden higher cadence because suddenly there is less ‚real‘ resistance from the mountain?) in order to ‘readjust’ immediately after one or two seconds (= lowering of the cadence because there is higher ‚real‘ resistance?).

Take a look for yourself. I find it hard to notice, but when you do, it’s telling. For me, this is a clear indication that a motor is being used. And perhaps, as an engineer, one can deduce how this motor might work.


PS:

According to Grok, it now seems possible to make only a certain part of a carbon frame conductive in order to operate a hidden motor without having to install power cables, plugs or similar.

Grok says:

„Carbon fibres in carbon frames are naturally slightly conductive, but the epoxy resin matrix insulates them. By using conductive resins or adding conductive materials such as graphene, carbon nanotubes or metal particles (e.g. silver or copper), electrical conductivity can be specifically increased. These materials can be embedded in specific areas of the frame to create current paths. During the manufacturing process of the carbon frame, conductive layers or strips can be incorporated into the carbon structure to conduct electricity from a power source (e.g. a hidden battery) to a motor."


PPS:

Very interesting in this context (I asked Grok about ownership of Colnago):

„In May 2020, bicycle manufacturer Colnago was acquired by Chimera Investments LLC, an investment fund based in Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates.“

Well, and UAE – which is ultimately what this is all about – happens to be the team's main sponsor.

And it is surely just a coincidence that Pogačar won his first Tour de France victory in 2020 – we all remember the notorious time trial up to ‘La Planche des Belles Filles’.

Quite clever, actually, to buy the bicycle manufacturer right away (to secretely implement the stuff you need).

And an idea that could only come from someone who has nothing to do with cycling, its fascination and history. Someone who simply asks themselves how stupid you have to be not to use a hidden motor.


Have a nice evening!
And this kind of post is exactly why I have a hard time believing the motor theories. There is literally nothing in that clip that anyone who has the common sense not to trust language models as a primary source of research would find unusual.

Oh and my waist measures 32" as long as we're sharing irrelevant personal trivia on our posts.
 
Indurain didn't gloat in the artificial limelight. He was humble and his competition knew he was better and not far off of their program.
Lance became polarizing for a number of reasons. His history in the US was well known and it included marginalizing any talent that might come to "his" team. Coupled with his management the aim was as much a legendary money-grab as being a winning bike racer. Textbook sociopath.

Yup, Indurain only won TTs at the Tour during his reign and let others fight for the rest of stages. Human aspect is very important: Indurain was silent, humble, not greedy to win stages and opposite to controversial. It was far less likely that anyone would want to bury his legend. Armstrong obviously was a complete opposite.
 
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And this kind of post is exactly why I have a hard time believing the motor theories. There is literally nothing in that clip that anyone who has the common sense not to trust language models as a primary source of research would find unusual.

Oh and my waist measures 32" as long as we're sharing irrelevant personal trivia on our posts.
Yep, with you on this one. I can understand why people talk about motordoping, and I absolutely think it's something we should be wary of. However, I then see people sharing videoclips that they insist show "evidence" of it, and I really can't see anything. That clip looks to me like Pogacar setting a strong tempo, with Vingegaard trying to match it and then giving up. I'm not sure that is evidence of anything at all, except that Vingegaard couldn't match Pogacar's tempo.
 
Here we go again. I've never wanted a rider to crash until now tbh, I've got tired of this cheat rider and his *** team. Ruined cycling since 2020 and nothing has been done yet.
Don't you think this is too much? I will not report your post because this post was already seen and edited by a moderator but wishing a rider to crash out (and probably get injured) is too much.
I can understand people getting angry about this dominance but wishing a rider to crash out is not pretty!