Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[noob]

I wondered about that as well. Who at UAE knows what's really going on? It has to be a selective group.

San Milan for sure. You've seen the post where he defended himself on here? It just had to be himself or someone else very close to him.

To become a Landis there has to be created a desperation where one just tears down everything, a recklessness.

 

[Red Rick]

I think before the forum came online there was already a lot of stuff on Lance. Like the three positive tests that couldn't be used because they got rid of the B-samples.

The thing with "a Landis" is that it's a difference if someone just is the stronger leader and you're unhappy about it, or if they are straight up terrorists like Lance was. Of course we don't know what exactly is going on behind the scenes, but Lace did shovel his own grave by being the *** he was.

Indurain is the much better example that Omerta just stays forever. Implicitly everyone understands what was up with him. Yet he still has all his victories.

 

[Oldman]

Doped to the gills Jonas grimacing in pain while "clean" Teddy breathes through his nose and finishes looking fresh as can be while pulling away effortlessly. Pretty damning contrast.

Talent + Doping + strategic / selective motor usage.

I didn't like at all the way he was hammering at his computer during the aftermath of that attack.

Tadej has been racing. Jonas has been in a camp/laboratory environment by contrast. As another frame of reference do you think Jonas is really 2+ minutes better than Remco on a climb they were able to ride the big ring for most of the last 7km? Tadej got out of the saddle and accelerated on each steeper ramp to keep Jonas working and then looked to settle into conservation zone. He might have to look at his cyclocomputer to check his desired effort. Or, as a fantasy scenario might suggest: que up the nuclear powered motor system.

I've ridden that Croix de Fer the same time of year and temperature. It is a beast as there always seems to be a hot headwind from the Magedelene to the summit. If you come up from Oz it can be windy from much further down and it killed me. The little store at the top had baguettes; likely the worst in all of the Alps. It took 2 to refuel to ride the downhill to Bourg. Seeing the JV train setting tempo up the climb that far from the finish didn't look like a great strategy and explains both Kuss and Jorgenson folding the tent early on the last climb. All things contribute to a tough day for JV but better tactics and a month of prep and they should be much more of a factor than this week.

 

[Valv.Piti]

A huge problem in that era would also be to find a clean winner. Miguel played his cards right and nobody really has a problem with him, I certainly don't. Extremely well liked and respected by nearly everyone

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

I wouldn't be suprised if UAE actually paid the media to keep their mouths shut. I just don't understand why there isn't the same energy as Sky/ US Postal ect.

I think the simplest explanation as to why there is so much difference to Sky and US Postal is the fact that we haven't had a high grade doping case in ages. The last one was Contador over a decade ago, and we used to have Landis after Lance, and Lance was spoken of as a doper with massive amounts of people believing in it before he finally was brought down.

Basically when it comes to positive tests or doping cases, we kinda live in the "cleanest" of all Eras. Also even though a lot of people seem to think of Pogacar/Visma as arrogant (depends on who you ask), I think it's quite a margin to how arrogant Lance was and how Sky came on the scene, proclaiming to finally do it the right way over the savages from the continent, in their super British way. There used to be a thread that was about "Brits don't dope" in which it was partly argued, that Brits don't dope due to the moral superiority of their leaders. I kid you not.
UAE isn't coming along and say: we do everything so much better than you lazy idiots, or if they are, they are doing a much worse job at propaganda.

 

[Oldman]

Indurain is the much better example that Omerta just stays forever. Implicitly everyone understands what was up with him. Yet he still has all his victories.

Indurain didn't gloat in the artificial limelight. He was humble and his competition knew he was better and not far off of their program.
Lance became polarizing for a number of reasons. His history in the US was well known and it included marginalizing any talent that might come to "his" team. Coupled with his management the aim was as much a legendary money-grab as being a winning bike racer. Textbook sociopath.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Indurain won his big races, the odd stage here and there and then correctly buggered off, he was intelligent enough to let honest breakaway riders have their day. Giannetti has always lacked the subtlety, a complete psychopath.

 

[janoster]

Good evening, you lovely people,

first timer here; I‘ve been a cycling fan since 1998, Ullrich and Pantani, that's how it all started, and now – at least since this year – I'm seriously ‘pissed and mad about it’.

A brief background: I trained at a high level for five years, 18-24 hours per week, Vo2Max was at 82-85, and from 2019 to 2023, I did about 2,600 hours of indoor training on the Smarttrainer.

Why am I telling you this?

I noticed something odd on stage 6 of Dauphine; keyword: Pogačar's attack.

Feel free to watch the video (preferably on a slightly larger screen).

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C7M7PkRQL4&t=111s



Until about minute 1:44, Vingegaard is right behind Pogačar.

Then, at 1:46, Pogačar looks down at his bike computer (or whatever it is) and then pulls away decisively from poor Vingegaard – Pogačars performance simply explodes (seated).

It looks as if the motor is kicking in.

In fact, it's the same sequence of events that Pogačar performed immediately before his winning attack at Flèche Wallone 2025 (looking down, sudden explosion of power, seated).

But we already know all this. What I find really strange in the rest of the video:

At around 1:49 (and perhaps also at 1:52), his cadence seems to vary – it's hard to see, and only for about two or three pedal revolutions. In my opinion, for a very brief, almost imperceptible moment, his cadence becomes slightly faster and then drops slightly again, all without shifting gears (as he did before the attack, for example). It happens within second(s).

This observation – Pogačar does not shift gears, the power output remains consistently high (he pulls away significantly), but the cadence still varies – immediately reminded me of indoor training and the behaviour of my Tacx Neo (used in ERG-mode).

When riding intervals with the Tacx Neo 2 at high power – say anything above 350 watts; it becomes really clear with the Tacx Neo 2 when switching from 470 watts to 370 watts, for example – the chip sometimes doesn't work fast enough and a similar phenomenon occurs; with the Tacx Neo, because the full resistance is not immediately available at the start of the interval (= very high cadence for a short time), but is then present after one or two seconds (= so the cadence lowers).

With regard to the attack: Pogačar's hypothetical motor must – after being activated by him – have had an (unforeseen) power spike upwards (= sudden higher cadence because suddenly there is less ‚real‘ resistance from the mountain?) in order to ‘readjust’ immediately after one or two seconds (= lowering of the cadence because there is higher ‚real‘ resistance?).

Take a look for yourself. I find it hard to notice, but when you do, it’s telling. For me, this is a clear indication that a motor is being used. And perhaps, as an engineer, one can deduce how this motor might work.


PS:

According to Grok, it now seems possible to make only a certain part of a carbon frame conductive in order to operate a hidden motor without having to install power cables, plugs or similar.

Grok says:

„Carbon fibres in carbon frames are naturally slightly conductive, but the epoxy resin matrix insulates them. By using conductive resins or adding conductive materials such as graphene, carbon nanotubes or metal particles (e.g. silver or copper), electrical conductivity can be specifically increased. These materials can be embedded in specific areas of the frame to create current paths. During the manufacturing process of the carbon frame, conductive layers or strips can be incorporated into the carbon structure to conduct electricity from a power source (e.g. a hidden battery) to a motor."


PPS:

Very interesting in this context (I asked Grok about ownership of Colnago):

„In May 2020, bicycle manufacturer Colnago was acquired by Chimera Investments LLC, an investment fund based in Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates.“

Well, and UAE – which is ultimately what this is all about – happens to be the team's main sponsor.

And it is surely just a coincidence that Pogačar won his first Tour de France victory in 2020 – we all remember the notorious time trial up to ‘La Planche des Belles Filles’.

Quite clever, actually, to buy the bicycle manufacturer right away (to secretely implement the stuff you need).

And an idea that could only come from someone who has nothing to do with cycling, its fascination and history. Someone who simply asks themselves how stupid you have to be not to use a hidden motor.


Have a nice evening!

 

[kamaveli]

The UCI could easily put an end to the talk of motordoping. All it would take is one random test broadcasted live after one of those suspicious stages.
Just remove the fork, stick a camera inside the frame and everyone can see if there are any extra wires or batteries. I mean how hard can it be? Those tablets are only likely to increase suspicion.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Indurain is the much better example that Omerta just stays forever. Implicitly everyone understands what was up with him. Yet he still has all his victories.

That's because he kept his mouth shut and retired at the right time.

 

[acm]

I don't think they have a good relationship at all, but Rogla got screwed by Visma. You never know if he told someone - who then told Pog for instance.

Visma riders are always flying after May training camp, while Pogacar did not really improve before the Tour compared to his spring level. But now, he also has this big level increase in May.

What is your preferred explanation? Was he clean in 19'-23' but not now or just way more dirty now?

I don't think he was ever clean since he joined UAE.
About Roglič... why would he tell anyone what Visma was doing? Except his current team of course.

 

[noob]

I think the simples explanation as to why there is so much difference so Sky and US Postal is the fact that we haven't had a high grade doping case in ages. The last one was Contador over a decade ago, and we used to have Landis after Lance, and Lance was spoken of as a doper with massive amounts of people believing in it before he finally was brought down.

Basically when it comes to positive tests or doping cases, we kinda live in the "cleanest" of all Eras. Also even though a lot of people seem to think of Pogacar/Visma as arrogant (depends on who you ask), I think it's quite a margin to how arrogant Lance was and how Sky came on the scene, proclaiming to finally do it the right way over the savages from the continent, in their super British way. There used to be a thread that was about "Brits don't dope" in which it was partly argued, that Brits don't dope due to the moral superiority of their leaders. I kid you not.
UAE isn't coming along and say: we do everything so much better than you lazy idiots, or if they are, they are doing a much worse job at propaganda.

I honestly think Armstrong being an ahole wasn't the only reason Landis did what he did; Landis did what he did because he was Landis. Jealous and vindictive, but also reckless.

Betsy Andreiu is like the archetype moral wistleblower, the kind of wistleblower that has the grit and courage to stand against anything like a martyr.
Vaughters is like her distorting mirror, the sly self serving autistic creepy guy.* Of course he became a DS himself.

Emma o Riley I can't pinpoint.

I don't think Lance would've fallen without Betsy Andreiu.

Spoiler: *

* Yes even Vaughters thinks many DS are neurodivergent and they sure are creepy. The richest man on earth is an autistic, creepy self serving guy if you want a real archetypal example )

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

I honestly think Armstrong being an ahole wasn't the only reason Landis did what he did; Landis did what he did because he was Landis. Jealous and vindictive, but also reckless.

Betsy Andreiu is like the archetype moral wistleblower, the kind of wistleblower that has the grit and courage to stand against anything like a martyr.
Vaughters is like her distorting mirror, the sly self serving autistic creepy guy. Of course he became a DS himself.

Emma o Riley I can't pinpoint.

I don't think Lance would've fallen without Betsy Andreiu.

Well in this case I mentioned Landis as a doping case. Even though he was technically before Armstongs bust.

But I get what you mean.

 

[Psycat]

Its not longer a matter of right and wrong. Its being on the winning side and support it no matter what. Its the new religion!

I think it's some weird thing were people identify themselves with the true outliers, see the same thing in hockey forums, game forums and so on. People have this mega boner for the very best and feel like they are entitled the world simply for having success in something, all things considered, rather meaningless.

The weird thing is that when I grew up people would usually identify more with the underdogs but there, to me, seems to be a clear shift. Of course all empirical and just some observations ive made but it seems to indicate that people in general envision themselves as these demigods.

Rather off topic but think this is a trend we can see in pretty much anything, winner truly does take it all nowadays and the vast majority are simply there to prop them up. Not that it's anything new in history(after all we have had self proclaimed gods as emperors and what not) but what's new, to me, is that the mass at large totally buys into it. Wonder if the cyclists are the same, do they worship the ground Pog rides on?

 

[Oldman]

Good evening, you lovely people,

first timer here; I‘ve been a cycling fan since 1998, Ullrich and Pantani, that's how it all started, and now – at least since this year – I'm seriously ‘pissed and mad about it’.

A brief background: I trained at a high level for five years, 18-24 hours per week, Vo2Max was at 82-85, and from 2019 to 2023, I did about 2,600 hours of indoor training on the Smarttrainer.

Why am I telling you this?

I noticed something odd on stage 6 of Dauphine; keyword: Pogačar's attack.

Feel free to watch the video (preferably on a slightly larger screen).

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C7M7PkRQL4&t=111s



Until about minute 1:44, Vingegaard is right behind Pogačar.

Then, at 1:46, Pogačar looks down at his bike computer (or whatever it is) and then pulls away decisively from poor Vingegaard – Pogačars performance simply explodes (seated).

It looks as if the motor is kicking in.

In fact, it's the same sequence of events that Pogačar performed immediately before his winning attack at Flèche Wallone 2025 (looking down, sudden explosion of power, seated).

But we already know all this. What I find really strange in the rest of the video:

At around 1:49 (and perhaps also at 1:52), his cadence seems to vary – it's hard to see, and only for about two or three pedal revolutions. In my opinion, for a very brief, almost imperceptible moment, his cadence becomes slightly faster and then drops slightly again, all without shifting gears (as he did before the attack, for example). It happens within second(s).

This observation – Pogačar does not shift gears, the power output remains consistently high (he pulls away significantly), but the cadence still varies – immediately reminded me of indoor training and the behaviour of my Tacx Neo (used in ERG-mode).

When riding intervals with the Tacx Neo 2 at high power – say anything above 350 watts; it becomes really clear with the Tacx Neo 2 when switching from 470 watts to 370 watts, for example – the chip sometimes doesn't work fast enough and a similar phenomenon occurs; with the Tacx Neo, because the full resistance is not immediately available at the start of the interval (= very high cadence for a short time), but is then present after one or two seconds (= so the cadence lowers).

With regard to the attack: Pogačar's hypothetical motor must – after being activated by him – have had an (unforeseen) power spike upwards (= sudden higher cadence because suddenly there is less ‚real‘ resistance from the mountain?) in order to ‘readjust’ immediately after one or two seconds (= lowering of the cadence because there is higher ‚real‘ resistance?).

Take a look for yourself. I find it hard to notice, but when you do, it’s telling. For me, this is a clear indication that a motor is being used. And perhaps, as an engineer, one can deduce how this motor might work.


PS:

According to Grok, it now seems possible to make only a certain part of a carbon frame conductive in order to operate a hidden motor without having to install power cables, plugs or similar.

Grok says:

„Carbon fibres in carbon frames are naturally slightly conductive, but the epoxy resin matrix insulates them. By using conductive resins or adding conductive materials such as graphene, carbon nanotubes or metal particles (e.g. silver or copper), electrical conductivity can be specifically increased. These materials can be embedded in specific areas of the frame to create current paths. During the manufacturing process of the carbon frame, conductive layers or strips can be incorporated into the carbon structure to conduct electricity from a power source (e.g. a hidden battery) to a motor."


PPS:

Very interesting in this context (I asked Grok about ownership of Colnago):

„In May 2020, bicycle manufacturer Colnago was acquired by Chimera Investments LLC, an investment fund based in Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates.“

Well, and UAE – which is ultimately what this is all about – happens to be the team's main sponsor.

And it is surely just a coincidence that Pogačar won his first Tour de France victory in 2020 – we all remember the notorious time trial up to ‘La Planche des Belles Filles’.

Quite clever, actually, to buy the bicycle manufacturer right away (to secretely implement the stuff you need).

And an idea that could only come from someone who has nothing to do with cycling, its fascination and history. Someone who simply asks themselves how stupid you have to be not to use a hidden motor.


Have a nice evening!

So you never actually raced a road bike, at any level?

FYI, Tadej won races against noteworthy competition at Tour of California while still a teen. He has raced since he was nine and reknowned for lapping fields of older riders then. No UAE and motorized bikes didn't exist except with internal combustion engines. Tough to hide that.
Maybe look towards the 18 and 20 year olds in this race, first.

 

[DONCA]

The UCI could easily put an end to the talk of motordoping. All it would take is one random test broadcasted live after one of those suspicious stages.
Just remove the fork, stick a camera inside the frame and everyone can see if there are any extra wires or batteries. I mean how hard can it be? Those tablets are only likely to increase suspicion.

but then what would happen? biggest cycling scandal ever. they would lose everything with a positive uae test. money money money

 

[Psycat]

A huge problem in that era would also be to find a clean winner. Miguel played his cards right and nobody really has a problem with him, I certainly don't. Extremely well liked and respected by nearly everyone

But now they are so fast Big Mig looks pedestrian by comparison and they are all cleans? And of course Pogacar is more ahead of the rest than they would be of Mig. Like if everything improved so much, mariginal gains, nutrition, training blabla wouldn't that make for the logical conclusion that the riders should be closer in ability since nobody can gain advantage via just practicing or eating better?

And that's not even accounting for the fact that riders of the past were on full-on epo programs, maybe picking the right protein is more impactful?

 

[Gianetti_Is_The_Goat]

So you never actually raced a road bike, at any level?

FYI, Tadej won races against noteworthy competition at Tour of California while still a teen. He has raced since he was nine and reknowned for lapping fields of older riders then. No UAE and motorized bikes didn't exist except with internal combustion engines. Tough to hide that.
Maybe look towards the 18 and 20 year olds in this race, first.

He was 20 and already a member of UAE. Check his pre-UAE results. There's not much there. Sure, he won the Giro del Lunigiana against Italian unknowns. Course de la Paix 2016: 26th at almost 6 minutes, more than 5 minutes behind fellow Slovenian Primozic who was a few months younger. Generational talent? LOL.
I invite everyone to compare Primozic results in 2016 with Pogacars. Explain to me why one of them became a near unbeatable monster less than 3 seasons later.

 

[SorelyBoy]

Just look at the way Pogacar rode away from Vingegaard yesterday. It looks utterly freaky, no particular increase in effort and yet an acceleration that just took him up the road away from Jonas. It looks hilarious.

 

[Blobs]

Just look at the way Pogacar rode away from Vingegaard yesterday. It looks utterly freaky, no particular increase in effort and yet an acceleration that just took him up the road away from Jonas. I looks hilarious.

Looked very similar to Cancellara riding away from Boonen.

 

[Netserk]

Then came the Vuelta. Roglič was set to lead, as promised. But suddenly Vingegaard also wanted to ride, and the team said, “Sure, you can be co-leader.” And the rest is history. That’s when Roglič really got screwed.

Not suddenly, it was already the plan before the season if he came out of the Tour well.

 

[E_F_]

Of course all empirical

Do I not know how to use the word empirical correctly, did I not understand you, or was that a typo?

 

[E_F_]

Rather off topic but think this is a trend we can see in pretty much anything, winner truly does take it all nowadays and the vast majority are simply there to prop them up. Not that it's anything new in history(after all we have had self proclaimed gods as emperors and what not) but what's new, to me, is that the mass at large totally buys into it. Wonder if the cyclists are the same, do they worship the ground Pog rides on?

Am I allowed to say neoliberalism on this forum?

 

[dr.eve]

and after the TT everyone was cheering the end of Tadej's dominance and happy to write him off. Just a note to the uninitiated: the implication about Tadej belong in the Clinic. They have a doping aisle and a motor doping aisle where you're free to shop for conspiracies d'Jour.
I'm not a Mod but one may come knocking soon.

This is simply not true. I am not a Pogacar fan and I definitely did not cheer the end of his dominance after the TT. I simply didn't take the TT so seriously, it was one moment in time. Same as Remco's win was not so spectacular, we know he wins TT's. Yea it was kind of hopeful that Jonas beat Tadej in the TT but nothing more than that, I was expecting Tadej to easily crush everyone and he did... and will continue to do so.

I have been done with Tadej since years ago because it's simply not interesting to watch, I watch sport for for the competition between athlethes and the entertainment that is provided because of it. I do not watch to see a one man show day in day out. But here's the difference in this day, many people, and I suspect mostly a younger generation, are all about the GOAT et cetera and simply love these one man shows day in day out. They consider this GOAT to be an absolute great person whom only just plays the same tape over and over again after he finishes: "they went full gas, my team did great, I did this for urska...bla bla bla"

My opinion, Tadej is one of the most boring winning athlete I have seen in sports. Besides that I think he's toying with honesty and probably cheating. Why? Simply because Gianetti and co are his boss I know enough. No sane person would ever want to ride for that criminal.

Oh well and the other part is that journalism these day has not one bit of critical thinking... everyone is on the bandwagon of please appreciate this miracle of Tadej... oh come on...

Anyway my two cents, obviously worth nothing.

 

[pelotonIQ]

Holy moly! If it's detectable by anyone, please share your insight on how. We are not talking about the e-bikes you see on the normal streets with big batteries. They were able to make small motors/batteries hidden in the seat tubes over 25 years ago, that time we didn't even have smartphones or any other of the cutting edge technology of today. And I read here earlier, that they have somewhere invested hundreds of thousand € for very sophisticated systems, so they do exist and you can also buy a roadbike with one, if you can spare a couple tens of thousands on it. So imagine what can the richest team ever afford with it's unlimited resources. So sure you can easily detect it just by being close to a rider. And then you have the arrogance calling others stupid🤦🤌

How funny of you to ask another forum member to prove Pogacar's innocence when the burden of proof is on you, you're the one making the motor-doping accusations. So far, all we have seen from you in this thread is constant yelling about motor-doping with no explanation to how and where a motor device could be hidden inside a bicycle despite magnetometer, thermal camera and physical bicycle inspections and if you win a race/stage, these tests are frequently performed on winners and targeted riders.

You can start by explaining the technical side of doing motor-doping in regards to bypassing all beforementioned tests. Stage is yours.