Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Stablo]

I am not arguing for motor doping but can't compare Merckx's era with the current. It's like comparing the best student in their school to the best student in the whole country. How many teams were back then with any serious backing and what was the talent pool? Nothing like these days. It was mostly Belgian and French riders.
Not only that but their understanding of nutrition, PED "assistance" and equipment was limited (at least compared to today's) and therefore any innovation, no matter how small could have a significant effect on performance.

And that's why poggies results from at least 24&25, are more outrageous and unbeliavable, than even those of Eddies.

 

[Stablo]

Summa summarum why do I believe that e-doping is more likely than not, even thought I don't have "proof"(duh):
- the otherwordly results around the year
- the backround team, as in it's not hard to see someone like Gianetti doing it and convincing pog that it's neccessary if you want to win
-the lack of fatique and drop in form
- the all terrain domination in a highly specialised era
-the competition is likely tougher than ever before
-the ease he just drives the super talented competition of his wheel again and again(seated especially)effortless and fresh as a daisy
-the e-assistance technology has developed and is evolving in huge steps, so the temptation to get an edge has to be there
-I don‘t believe for a second that UCI would bust them with UAE specially, but not even other big names

It's all circumstantial evidence I know, but unless you're an insider in the pro peloton, that's all we have.

I'm now trying to write less here, at least until the Tour😉 and focus my spare time on the more important and bigger things currently going on around the world. And most importantly enjoy the summer with the family☺️
Enjoy the summer people and may the rides be smooth! 🫡

 

[Cassirer]

Summa summarum why do I believe that e-doping is more likely than not, even thought I don't have "proof"(duh):
- the otherwordly results around the year
- the backround team, as in it's not hard to see someone like Gianetti doing it and convincing pog that it's neccessary if you want to win
-the lack of fatique and drop in form
- the all terrain domination in a highly specialised era
-the competition is likely tougher than ever before
-the ease he just drives the super talented competition of his wheel again and again(seated especially)effortless and fresh as a daisy
-the e-assistance technology has developed and is evolving in huge steps, so the temptation to get an edge has to be there
-I don‘t believe for a second that UCI would bust them with UAE specially, but not even other big names

It's all circumstantial evidence I know, but unless you're an insider in the pro peloton, that's all we have.

I'm now trying to write less here, at least until the Tour😉 and focus my spare time on the more important and bigger things currently going on around the world. And most importantly enjoy the summer with the family☺️
Enjoy the summer people and may the rides be smooth! 🫡

Largely agree. I would add the pattern of good but human days followed up immediately by gigantic performances screams assistance (not necessarily motor) - pdbf 2020, galibier etc 2024, and now combloux after the tt.

 

[DONCA]

What if the other teams have done it too and now just have to suck it up. Or they still are and they're trying really hard to find what kind of assist does the state sponsored basically bike company owning team have. At least Visma 2023 looks suspicious(that Kuss attack on Vuelta🤌😂!!). It also looks like they were asked/demanded to downplay things a bit after that, but then pogster&gianetti struck back, making their numbers look like kindergarten stuff😉

Other riders opened their mouth already at the Tour 2021. They were mentioning strange, metallic noise coming from the rear hub of some riders and Pogacars UAE team is one of the suspicious teams.

Störgeräusche um Tadej Pogacar – DW – 18.07.2021

Die Tour de France endet mit dem überlegenen Sieg von Tadej Pogacar - und mit viel Raunen im Peloton. Neue Doping- und sogar Motordoping-Gerüchte machen die Runde. Das erinnert an alte Zeiten, kommentiert Joscha Weber.

www.dw.com

And there are even accusations of engine doping: three anonymous riders told the Swiss newspaper Le Temps about “suspicious noises” coming from the rear hub of some riders. "It's a strange, metallic noise, like a badly adjusted chain. I've never heard anything like it," reported one pro during the Tour. The accusation behind it: secret additional motors are supposed to accelerate the racing bikes. However, these have so far remained undetected by the UCI. Tadej Pogacar's UAE racing team is one of the suspicious teams.

The UCI won´t catch riders with motors, because they don´t wan´t to damage or destroy their sport. With a positive case they would not only lose money, hundreds of people will lose their jobs. They won´t catch pog because they get money from UAE. They would lose 2 teams, main sponsor and the organizer of the worl championships 2027. Never ever.

Thats probably the reason why the UCI doesn´t outsource those motor controls to other organizations. They want to keep the control. If you really want to catch riders with a motor you do the maximum you could do. But the UCI is far away from the maximum. I mean even the UCI President David Lappartient admits that in the Ghost in the machine podcast (Episode 7).

The UCI has also a “Fight against Technological Fraud” Rewards Programme. If you get good tips, you get a reward . But to me it sounds more like they want to be in control. As soon as someone reports something, they will contact the UCI. So they are always one step ahead if their sport is about to suffer reputational damage. For me it sounds about control and about keeping their jobs.

https://assets.ctfassets.net/761l7gh5x5an/5UvT1jiiqv4YjL0OYBPiLG/3d31f55a3955eaf9ede92c3d234bfb9e/UCI_FATF-RP_policy_ENG.pdf

Motor doping is real but the UCI won`t stop it because they don´t wont it. I mean just look at this Armstrong Video. Armstrong presses a button under his seat.A short time later, his cadence increases and he flies. I wonder why? Because he has to poop? Things are so obvious.

The motor allegedly used by Lance Armstrong to cheat

The latest scandal to surround ex-cyclist Lance Armstrong is the accusation of having used technological doping during some of the sport's biggest events. The American was strippe

www.marca.com

The UCI is trying to reassure us with its inadequate tests. Why? because they are afraid that some crazy people will take steps to find engines themselves. The president literally says that. If engines are found one day, it will certainly not be because the UCI has found them.

 

[danielovichdk2]

I don't buy the motor doping story. I have never seen a hub or a crank where a possible engine is at such a low weight that it would make sense to fit it in. Can anyone provide a link where such a device exists and perhaps weighs around 500gr (that would mean shaving off 500gr elsewhere on an already lean bike).

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

I don't buy the motor doping story. I have never seen a hub or a crank where a possible engine is at such a low weight that it would make sense to fit it in. Can anyone provide a link where such a device exists and perhaps weighs around 500gr (that would mean shaving off 500gr elsewhere on an already lean bike).

The motor theories often enough presume that there are no, or fake inspections. So, in this line of reasoning, I guess weight shouldn't be the issue either. Yet it has to be mentioned, that bikes can be much leaner, and much leaner bikes exist, it's just that the UCI has set a specific minimum weight. So I think getting rid of it should not be that hard I guess.

 

[Rico044]

There is one way to get to the bottom of this motor doping business! We need some vigilante to steal Pog's bike after a big stage, and then tear that sh!t apart on facebook live!

 

[danielovichdk2]

The motor theories often enough presume that there are no, or fake inspections. So, in this line of reasoning, I guess weight shouldn't be the issue either. Yet it has to be mentioned, that bikes can be much leaner, and much leaner bikes exist, it's just that the UCI has set a specific minimum weight. So I think getting rid of it should not be that hard I guess.

No doubt, the 7.5kg limit can absolutely be put down. But I still haven't seen any engine design on a low weight scale.

For the inspections, it's a fairly low hanging fruit to scan the top 10-15 riders bikes. Nothing to it really. FIA has great inspection policies, UCI should as well, especially since cycling is becoming more and more about faster bikes/clothes. We know this is primarily a marketing thing and riders are of course still doping.

But there are many small things that can be done, which baffles me still is not being done.

Weigh-ins and weigh-outs of top 10 ten riders, in the presence of an UCI doctor, before the race starts and after the stage ends.

All race computers to be tagged or incorporated with a UCI hardware specific chip and be handed in after each stage.

That would either shut up the people in doubt or raise questions based on actual real data.

 

[Stablo]

There is one way to get to the bottom of this motor doping business! We need some vigilante to steal Pog's bike after a big stage, and then tear that sh!t apart on facebook live!

My thought's exactly 😉who is going to take one for the team? 😂🤌

 

[Froome]

They have played it well, when those numbers look like a walk in the park now. Nothing to see here, just a casual 7,2w/kg for 20 mins in a prep race 😉🙏🏼

It wasn't that much, but it was a great perfomance.

It was something around 7/7.05 W/kg in almost 20 minutes.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

It wasn't that much, but it was a great perfomance.

It was something around 7/7.05 W/kg in almost 20 minutes.

Maybe the best ever performance in a prep-race.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Maybe the best ever performance in a prep-race.

It was much more than 7 w/kg. If not, everyone underperformed except Pogacar. I'm pretty sure it's the opposite.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

It was much more than 7 w/kg. If not, everyone underperformed except Pogacar. I'm pretty sure it's the opposite.

Maybe both (great performance + slight underperformance by Vingo) but anyway the gap was huge and that's what actually matters in races and it also signals the quality of performance under given circumstances.

 

[Froome]

It was much more than 7 w/kg. If not, everyone underperformed except Pogacar. I'm pretty sure it's the opposite.

It was much more than 7w/kg if you consider a standard weight of 60 kg.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Maybe the best ever performance in a prep-race.

On German ES Bengtsch called it "The best 20 minutes of cycling history" (in regards to performance)

 

[Froome]

On German ES Bengtsch called it "The best 20 minutes of cycling history" (in regards to performance)

I'm almost sure there was a section of 20 minutes on PDB were probably pogacar did more w/kg than on Combloux.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

I'm almost sure there was a section of 20 minutes on PDB were probably pogacar did more w/kg than on Combloux.

Personally I have no idea.
He also didn't put it into any perspective, comparing it to anything or else. He just dropped that.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I'm almost sure there was a section of 20 minutes on PDB were probably pogacar did more w/kg than on Combloux.

I was close to 7 w/kg in the bottom half of the climb and less in the upper (higher elevation + fatigue, slightly positive split). There was some breakdown of that performance into 3 parts.

 

[Froome]

Personally I have no idea.
He also didn't put it into any perspective, comparing it to anything or else. He just dropped that.

I was close to 7 w/kg in the bottom half of the climb and less in the upper (higher elevation + fatigue, slightly positive split). There was some breakdown of that performance into 3 parts.

Tour de France 2024, Pogacar le nouveau mutant. Par Frédéric Portoleau

Tadej Pogacar vient de réaliser le doublé Tour d'Italie / Tour de France, une performance inattendue dans ce cyclisme dense en coureurs de très haut niveau. Performance historique au plateau de Beille. Le Slovène a vraiment pris le dessus sur son rival danois Vingegaard au Plateau de Beille...

www.chronoswatts.com

"Power estimates allow us to realize the athletic performance on this climb. In Jorgenson's wheel for 13min27sec at the bottom of the pass, Pogacar and Vingegaard are at 460 standard watts while the American at the head of the group develops 476 standard watts. On the intermediate section of 6.65 km at 8.36% (from 2 to 3 on the map), from his attack, Vingegaard develops the equivalent of 487 standard watts (7.1 w/kg if 60 kg) for 17min27sec. This is not enough to drop Pogacar. On the sheltered forest section of 11.68 km at 8.36% without the final exposed to the wind (from 1 to 3 on the map), Pogacar develops a standard power of 472 standard watts over a duration of 30min36sec. Vingegaard does as well with 474 standard watts for 30min54sec. The Scandinavian weakened a little on the top and lost another 50 seconds while Pogacar continued at a pace never seen before on the Plateau de Beille. Over the entire climb, Pogacar's power output was estimated at 473 standard watts (6.78 w/kg if 66kg). Vingegaard also achieved an incredible performance with 463 standard watts."



They did something close in the intermediate section.

 

[Luthor]

Don't you think this is too much? I will not report your post because this post was already seen and edited by a moderator but wishing a rider to crash out (and probably get injured) is too much.
I can understand people getting angry about this dominance but wishing a rider to crash out is not pretty!

He is a cheater, period. Protected by a team of proved cheaters and UCI which gets oil money from UAE to protect him. He is not a nice person, despite his PR training made some people thought about him. A cheater who mocks the entire peloton and everyone who watches cycling. His entire persona is fake and it's a mockery comparing to other sportsmen. I look at other several sports and nobody at the top takes it as some form of game.

You can live in Narnia and believe in your miracles all you want, it doesn't change anything. Nobody gives a damn about "domination", this isn't domination, this is insulting people's intelligence and believing that he's untouchable. If you're going by the evidence route, then I'm afraid you also believed in the Narnia stories from Armstrong&co. Some people who watched cycling long enough know this is too good to be true but the entire cycling industry is basically omerta as killing Pogacar would mean killing the entire sport once again.

 

[danielovichdk2]

He is a cheater, period. Protected by a team of proved cheaters and UCI which gets oil money from UAE to protect him. He is not a nice person, despite his PR training made some people thought about him. A cheater who mocks the entire peloton and everyone who watches cycling. His entire persona is fake and it's a mockery comparing to other sportsmen. I look at other several sports and nobody at the top takes it as some form of game.

You can live in Narnia and believe in your miracles all you want, it doesn't change anything. Nobody gives a *** about "domination", this isn't domination, this is insulting people's intelligence and believing that he's untouchable.

I feel more insulted by Froome. And his wife.

 

[daking123]

The 2024 Paris-Roubaix was the moment I became convinced that he is motor doping. He did not win, but the fact that he nearly matched a significantly heavier more experienced classics rider on the cobbles Is beyond suspicious.

The sudden acceleration It was eerily reminiscent of Cancellara’s attacks. Out of nowhere, he launches an explosive burst not a gradual buildup, but an instant surgeright on the edge of the cobblestones where the ground is sketchy and full of loose dirt. Any cyclist knows that kind of sudden acceleration on loose uneven cobbles/dirt is nearly impossible there’s simply not enough traction to pull it off without slipping or losing control(unless you used a motor)
The bike change: This is the smoking gun for me. Late in the race with no visible mechanical issue, he swaps bikes. On the new bike his pace noticeably drops suddenly he is losing time to Van der Poel. Before the change, he was holding the gap with ease. Almost as if he knew the win was out of reach, so he switched to a regular bike to play it safe.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

it's the best to check what our hero said about this subject:

Since electric bicycles became fashionable, we have seen that it is not so easy to put a motor in a bicycle. I think it would show, I don't think it's possible to hide it. There were rumors five, ten years ago, but I don't even remember the last time I heard about it. I think we can rest assured now

I think this should end any doubts so rest assured, people!

Mechanical doping no longer something to fear in pro peloton, says Tadej Pogacar: "I think we can rest assured now"

Performances in recent years have gotten stronger and stronger within pro cycling, and that has led to increasing suspicions of doping in the pro peloton - both biological and mechanical. Tadej Pogaca...

cyclinguptodate.com

 

[Rou]

It was much more than 7 w/kg. If not, everyone underperformed except Pogacar. I'm pretty sure it's the opposite.

It's okay. If our friend poster feels better claiming that Pog was average that day so be it. People who see reality can realise that this was the best 20 min interval of Pogacar's career.

 

[Rou]

I'm almost sure there was a section of 20 minutes on PDB were probably pogacar did more w/kg than on Combloux.

No, there wasn't and you are making stuff up.