Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Low is rhe new high]

Is it some kind of burnout going on, too longtime on various chemicals must have a price. Armstrong and the gang back in the days had long recovery times in between cures Pantini being an exception and that did not end well. Gianetti has always been ruthless when it comes to using up riders. All this talk of retiring the lackluster performances in Canada and today’s fiasco. Maybe the era of the Pog is over now the era of del Toro has begun.

 

[SHAD0W93]

That’s what happens when Pogacar’s bike is a normal one without enhancements. Good performances but not great ones. It’s pretty obvious.

They must have put the motor in Evenepoel’s bike.

 

[SorelyBoy]

They must have put the motor in Evenepoel’s bike.

Nah, Remco is just pure class. Always was.

 

[BubbaChuck]

another induarin over lance moment.thye still claim big mig was aclimber,same for remco.to soon.

 

[acm]

Just wait for next Sunday

 

[BubbaChuck]

remco had 4 camps this year,lmao.just picture juice joans and remcp put in tghis year,thye basically spent whoel season on ''camps''.

 

[BubbaChuck]

remco magic of the 4th camp.well probably thye made choice, boy is getting serius depression and said fuk it,if he dies he dies.up the dose as mf.

 

[Cookster15]

another induarin over lance moment.thye still claim big mig was aclimber,same for remco.to soon.

I think a history lesson might be needed?

Remco has some work to do to be compared with Indurain. Big Mig wasn't a pure climber but he regularly destroyed pure climbers. That's how he won 5 straight Tours.

Below is one example of Indurain's climbing I will never forget - stage 10 of the '93 TdF which went over the Galibier. Indurain finished on same time as Rominger and Colombian climber Alvaro Mejia:

Tour de France 1993 Stage 10 results

Tour de France 1993 Stage 10 from Villard De Lans to Serre Chevalier was won by Tony Rominger before Alvaro Mejia and Miguel Induráin. Miguel Induráin was leading the general classification.

www.procyclingstats.com

Select names who were destroyed by non climber Indurain that day:
Hamsten +1'13"
Virenque + 4'35"
Delgado + 5'04"
Zulle + 6'57"
Fignon / Bugno + 7'42"
Chiapucci + 8'49"

I still chuckle when I read that Big Mig couldn't climb.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I think a history lesson might be needed?

Remco has some work to do to be compared with Indurain. Big Mig wasn't a pure climber but he regularly destroyed pure climbers. That's how he won 5 straight Tours.

Below is one example of Indurain's climbing I will never forget - stage 10 of the '93 TdF which went over the Galibier. Indurain finished on same time as Rominger and Colombian climber Alvaro Mejia:

Tour de France 1993 Stage 10 results

Tour de France 1993 Stage 10 from Villard De Lans to Serre Chevalier was won by Tony Rominger before Alvaro Mejia and Miguel Induráin. Miguel Induráin was leading the general classification.

www.procyclingstats.com

Select names who were destroyed by non climber Indurain that day:
Hamsten +1'13"
Virenque + 4'35"
Delgado + 5'04"
Zulle + 6'57"
Fignon / Bugno + 7'42"
Chiapucci + 8'49"

I still chuckle when I read that Big Mig couldn't climb.

La Plagne in 1995 is an even better example. When Indurain had to chase down a potentially dangerous guy up the road (Zulle) he absolutely demolished a group of elite climbers (i.e. Pantani, Tonkov, Virenque, Rominger) who couldn't hold his wheel. All of them lost 2-4 minutes.

 

[Cookster15]

La Plagne in 1995 is an even better example. When Indurain had to chase down a potentially dangerous guy up the road (Zulle) he absolutely demolished a group of elite climbers (i.e. Pantani, Tonkov, Virenque, Rominger) who couldn't hold his wheel. All of them lost over 2 minutes.

Thanks, yes I couldn't recall the mountain but you got it. That was 30 years ago but even today I see claims Indurain couldn't climb. It was because of his astonishing TT ability he usually didn't have to crush his rivals in the mountains. But what I recall during his reign was I rarely saw a grimace in the mountains.

 

[hrotha]

La Plagne in 1995 is an even better example. When Indurain had to chase down a potentially dangerous guy up the road (Zulle) he absolutely demolished a group of elite climbers (i.e. Pantani, Tonkov, Virenque, Rominger) who couldn't hold his wheel. All of them lost 2-4 minutes.

It's so funny to me that the last guy to hold Indurain's wheel on that legendary day was Paolo frickin' Lanfranchi riding for Italian powerhouse Brescialat

 

[Krzysztof_O]

It's so funny to me that the last guy to hold Indurain's wheel on that legendary day was Paolo frickin' Lanfranchi riding for Italian powerhouse Brescialat

He ended up losing 4 minutes though.

 

[ramato]

^ Whoever claims that Indurain could not climb with the best or was not a supreme climber has not watched the races. When you do watch them, it becomes apparent that - even more so in the years 94 and 95 - he was more often the man that was hurting others on the mountains than the being the man that got hurt.
In 94 and 95 he premiered a tactic later used by USP and SKY: destroying the competition on the first mountain top finish. 94 on Hautacam he lead the main group for the uttermost part of the climb, dropping everyone except Luc Leblanc and catching and dropping Pantani, who escaped at the bottom of the climb.
In 95 the same at La Plagne. He put 2:30 on Pantani, 4:00 on Virenque and Rominger, 4:30 on Escartin and 5:30 on Riis. Tonkov, who had excaped with Rominger, but was dropped, could only hold Indurains wheel for 20 seconds. But he had something like the 3rd or 4th fastest time of the ascent.
On the next day, only a supernatural Pantani was faster than Indurain on Alpe D'huez and Indurain lead the group with Zülle and Riis and hurt them a lot. Watch how Riis is suffering and nearly dropping a lot of times.
On the ascent to Mende Zülle attacked, then Pantani. Indurain chased and catched Pantani, with a suffering Riis on his wheel, while dropping Zülle.

Nobody was consistently stronger in the Mountains than Indurain in the Tours he won. Sure, Pantani had some great hunts in 94 and 95, but he lost a lot of time on other summit finishes and he is like the best climber in history until 2024. And in 94 Ugrumov had some absolutely magical juice on the last 3 mountain stages, but he was so far back, that Indurain did not need to hunt his long-range escapes down. On stage 18, he drilled the last climb to reduce the gap and dropped everyone bar Virenque. Pantani lost a minute.

In 93 Rominger could not escape the shadow of Indurain and in 92 after his legendary ride to Sestriere, Chiappucci was unable to drop Indurain in the remaining stages.
The reasons Indurain never won a non-ITT stage 1991-1995 are:

• when he went as hard as he could, he was trying to reduce the gap to a longe-range attack (e.g. La Plagne 95).
• Oftentimes, there was somebody that could follow him (e.g. Leblanc on Hautacam 94, Bruyneel in 95) and Indurain did not contest the sprint or pulled >90% of the time
• His team was not strong enough to catch all breaks / he did not feel the need to

 

[Cookster15]

Here he is on La Plagne 1995 TdF riding a steel Pinarello Espada (Note: Spanish commentary):

Indurain La Plagne 1995 Tour de France

Check all those pure climbers wilt when Big Mig grinds them into the dust with circa 500 watts. Typical Indurain. On the climb Indurain put 2'30" into Pantani and 4 minutes into Rominger. The stage had 5,000 metres of climbing in 166km.

This also reminds of Hautacam in 1994. He just sits on the front setting an impossible tempo and rides pure climbers off his wheel. Big climbing gears compared to these days.

Lest we forget.

 

[BubbaChuck]

How much could guy like big mig gain from epo in climbing.

 

[Cookster15]

How much could guy like big mig gain from epo in climbing.

Apparently bigger riders benefited more? Others here may know. But back then there were no rumors of complaints about Indurain in the peloton. It was considered a level playing field EPO or not.

 

[BubbaChuck]

There were no complaints,its fairy tell.If we loook at watts,big mig on crazy juice.almost riis level.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Imagine Teddy arrives at the start on this bike. I'm curious what would Remco, Ayuso and co say

 

[ontheroad]

Pogacar will have felt humiliated as he was caught by Remco with a 2 minute start in last weekends TT. It doesn’t matter that Remco was strong favourite to win it, just the manner of him toiling in vain to try and hold his wheel was a rare moment of weakness that we haven’t witnessed in 2 years. He actually looked to be in some degree of pain that we have rarely witnessed in recent times.

It will be interesting to see this weekend whether that was an anomaly or if his form has genuinely dipped.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Pogacar will have felt humiliated as he was caught by Remco with a 2 minute start in last weekends TT. It doesn’t matter that Remco was strong favourite to win it, just the manner of him toiling in vain to try and hold his wheel was a rare moment of weakness that we haven’t witnessed in 2 years. He actually looked to be in some degree of pain that we have rarely witnessed in recent times.

It will be interesting to see this weekend whether that was an anomaly or if his form has genuinely dipped.

Pogacar was breathing heavily even at the start of the TT, it didnt look good at all. Altitute must have been an important factor.

 

[Cookster15]

Altitute must have been an important factor.

If so then surely that is an acclimatisation matter in which case he should be fine now? At much higher altitudes in the Giro and Tour he had no such problems? If it’s bad prep then questions will be asked. I also think he had a lighter post Tour race schedule this season than 2024. We know the answers after the RR.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

If so then surely that is an acclimatisation matter in which case he should be fine now? At much higher altitudes in the Giro and Tour he had no such problems? If it’s bad prep then questions will be asked. I also think he had a lighter post Tour race schedule this season than 2024. We know the answers after the RR.

Acclimatization matters a lot. Someone after an altitude camp should feel much better. IMO its a matter of acclimatization, later form peak and Evenepoel simply being better and more natural on a TT bike.

 

[topcat]

The air quality is not great here. It might be a factor.
Meanwhile, no problem with the air quality at the Irish national gravel championships which take place at Shannapheasteen Forest, Galway Wind park in Connemara this weekend.

 

[TheKidsCallMeBoss]

Pogacar will have felt humiliated as he was caught by Remco with a 2 minute start in last weekends TT. It doesn’t matter that Remco was strong favourite to win it, just the manner of him toiling in vain to try and hold his wheel was a rare moment of weakness that we haven’t witnessed in 2 years. He actually looked to be in some degree of pain that we have rarely witnessed in recent times.

It will be interesting to see this weekend whether that was an anomaly or if his form has genuinely dipped.

Ganna overtook him in Glasgow from a bigger deficit, and then he didn't even win that ITT. Pogacar is fine, he's going to destroy everyone on Sunday. ITT is not his strength. It also doesn't help that the Colnago ITT bike is rubbish on hilly courses. Vine would have been much closer to Remco otherwise.

 

[Rob5091]

Mrs Pogi has had the sniffles so I guess the GOAT has had it too.